Friday, December 3, 2010

God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 5 of 5 | True Freethinker

Mariano ends his 5-part series looking on Biblical instances where people have seen God in the Old Testament - aka "theophanies". I loved the examples he brought up and I think that he sums up the series perfectly when he wrote:

If you do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that He is God because you do not believe that a human to see God face to face and live your argument is not with Christianity.
Rather, it is with God, Job, Abraham, Hagar, Jacob, Moses, Manoah and his wife, Ezekiel and Isaiah.
Thus, you are not calling into question Christian doctrine, rather, you are questioning the integrity of the books Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges, Ezekiel, Isaiah and Job.








God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 5 of 5 | True Freethinker
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26 comments:

  1. Yeah, still seems more like what we would expect if the bible was actually just a mish mash of ancient folk tales shoehorned together with apologist and theologians jumping through hoops to try to make it a cohesive unit. It’s clear that almost all cultures anthropomorphized their gods early on, so there’s no reason to think that the early Semitic cultures didn’t do this as well.

    Mario seemed to start out trying to show that God had in fact appeared in human form prior to Jesus, but then it seemed to devolve into an appeal to Jewish people that they should recognize that their tradition already contains stories with god in human form, so why not accept Jesus.

    The most interesting ramification from a Christian theological perspective, at least for me, is that if you assume Marino’s position, you now have multiple “sinless” humans and potential redeemers besides Jesus. If these humans were just poor schmoes who were possessed by god, then they had their free will abrogated, which if anything is actually a “sin”, that would be it. Can o’ worms for your side if you ask me.

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  2. It's not a can of worms because these are not cases of God possessing human beings. U obviously don't understand the incarnation or what Mariano is saying about what the theophanies were. We are not saying that theses were humans besides Jesus. They were Jesus Himself - Preincarnate.

    Go back and re-read Mariano's posts and listen to the Hazakim videos. They explain the point being made.

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  3. Yeah, no. I've already read it and christian music videos are less than appealing.

    I was actually making two points, one that if god was incarnate in human form before Jesus then multiple “sinless” humans and potential redeemers besides Jesus, and another where god possessed someone "midstream". The bible's not clear on the mechanics involved so all either of us (and Marino) is doing is speculating. Marino's "evidence" doesn't suggest that Jesus was "preincarnate" but that's the conclusion you're stuck with (to avoid possession). And all of Marino's "evidence" works just as well, if not better, to suggest that the Hebrews anthropomorphized their triable deity.

    I did figure you'd take this tack, as it's the only on available to you really. Ho

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  4. It's a better more consistent track than yours. If no one has seen the Father at any time, and yet Job, Abraham, Hagar, Jacob, Moses, Manoah and his wife, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and others have seen Him and the Bible also says that the fullness of Deity dwelled in Jesus and Jesus is God and He revels God then this is only understanding open to use without ignoring what both the Old and New Testaments say...as you have.

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  5. Obviously you didn't fully understand Hazakim's music because they explained it extremely well and matches what Mariano and I are arguing.

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  6. I said tack, not track.

    and yeah, I didn't fully understand Hazakim's music because I've never heard it and have no plans on listening to it.

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  7. I said tack, not track.

    So? Doesn't change anything I commented.

    and yeah, I didn't fully understand Hazakim's music because I've never heard it and have no plans on listening to it.

    Then you choose to remain ignorant. Thanks for being honest.

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  8. Wow, that was bad. I remain officially unaware of any decent christian music.

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  9. For the record, I used to like The Alter Boys, Rez Band, Petra and of course, Striper back in the day. But I think we can all agree though that those bands were in fact pretty terrible.

    Not saying christians can't make good music, but for some reason, when they limit themselves to the "christian" genre, they don't.

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  10. Not saying christians can't make good music, but for some reason, when they limit themselves to the "christian" genre, they don't.

    Must be over your head.

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  11. I think your presupposition of what "good" is need to be challenged and examined.

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  12. Musicaly? Not Hazakim... Needs more depth.

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  13. By what measuring stick?

    I'll tell you again I guess, mine.

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  14. I reject yours. What makes yours better than mine? How do you know it's more true? You don't.

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  15. Good for you Marcus, reject away! It's not more true, it's just mine.

    Honestly, does your unsubstanitated belief in moral absolutism translate over into musical preference absolutism? Or are you just stupid? Or both?

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  16. Honestly, does your unsubstanitated belief in moral absolutism translate over into musical preference absolutism? Or are you just stupid? Or both?

    You are the one who changed topic to music. I know you were trying to be "cute" but you were just pathetically transparent. You are great at "unsubstantiated belief" - ie Macro Evoltuion.

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