Monday, January 17, 2011

FacePalm of the Day #49 - Debunking Christianity: Proving That Prayer is Superstition


Equating Prayer with superstition is really stupid. This version of prayer makes God look like a slot machine. Neither of the verses used in the video rules out that God can say "no". I think its really stupid to think prayer and lucky horseshoes are the same. I would like to ask why would God care if you roll 6 sixes with 6 dies. The amputee objection is just silly. What amazes me most is that it's offered as if no one has ever considered the problem. It's been more than answered (here) and has been answered many times. It amazing. It's like impossible for people who think this way to understand the definitions of "faith" and "prayer". They miss it every time.




If you watched this, you just watched 10 minutes of fail. Of course it's important to ask and examine such questions. The problem isn't coming up with questions. I'm having problems with the logic and presuppositions drawn to reach the conclusions.

Debunking Christianity: Proving That Prayer is Superstition

5 comments:

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  2. Marcus said earlier; "you never talk about other kinds of prayers other than asking God to do something on your behalf. There are other types of prayers. Didn't you ever pray for guidance? Didn't you ever pray for wisdom? Didn't you ever pray to be a blessing to other people? Have you ever asked God to give you patience? Have you ever interceded with God on the behalf of anyone but yourself?"

    Question, how is praying for "guidance", "wisdom", "patience" or a "blessing for other people" not the same as "asking God to do something on your behalf."

    I think you are misguided if you think praying for a "new shiny red bike" and praying for "wisdom" are really all that different. You are still asking the back of your eyelids to give you something.

    And PS: Brian never actually addressed the actual problems raised by the amputee scenario.

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  3. @Ryan

    Question, how is praying for "guidance", "wisdom", "patience" or a "blessing for other people" not the same as "asking God to do something on your behalf."

    It can be. But doesn't have to be. If you ask God to meet someone else's needs, (like for giving someone else a job and you aren't going to get any personal benefit out of it), I don't think for a second that means you are asking God to do something on your behalf. You want God to do something for them. Not for you in that instance.

    I think you are misguided if you think praying for a "new shiny red bike" and praying for "wisdom" are really all that different. You are still asking the back of your eyelids to give you something.

    You are the one misguided if you can see that there is the possibility of wanting something altruistically without personal reward. If you say that this is not possible than you agree that there is no good in us in and of ourselves. The difference is that I think that such a gift can only come from God and I would argue that God can give it to people who aren't born again. Everything good comes from God.

    And PS: Brian never actually addressed the actual problems raised by the amputee scenario.

    If you expected an answer for why God answers "yes" to some prayers and "no" to others, no one can answer that. God has a will and He answers prayers according to his will and purposes. I'd like to know why anyone would assume that God "never" has healed an amputee. When it comes to this the best thing we can do is use the attitude of the Three Hebrew men when they faced the fiery furnace of Nebuchadnezzar and they had a choice: bow down to an idol or get tossed into the furnace:

    16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” - Daniel 3:16-18

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  4. If you ask God to meet someone else's needs...

    Granted, but how is praying for "guidance", "wisdom" or "patience" asking god to meet someone else's needs? It's not. It's asking god to meet your needs.

    If you expected an answer for why God answers "yes" to some prayers and "no" to others

    Sure, who can know why a god would do what, but it's sure interesting that when it does answer "yes" it's generally unverifiable and there is also a perfectly plausible natural explanation. That's what the amputee scenario is getting at.

    I'd like to know why anyone would assume that God "never" has healed an amputee.

    Same reason I assume Noah didn't live 175 million years ago on Pangea. There's no evidence for it.

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  5. Granted, but how is praying for "guidance", "wisdom" or "patience" asking god to meet someone else's needs? It's not. It's asking god to meet your needs.

    I never tried to argue that it wasn't asking God to meet your own needs. Nothing is wrong with that.

    Sure, who can know why a god would do what, but it's sure interesting that when it does answer "yes" it's generally unverifiable and there is also a perfectly plausible natural explanation. That's what the amputee scenario is getting at.

    So if God uses natural things in creation to answer your prayers, his intervention is unverifiable? The issue has always been I have seen and heard of God intervening in ways that natural explanations are not plausible. For example: fine-tuning of the natural world for habitation of the life forms that we know.

    Same reason I assume Noah didn't live 175 million years ago on Pangea. There's no evidence for it.

    Still it's an assumption. You have no evidence that Noah did not predate the final break up of Pangea. The Bible does not tell us when Noah lived and we don't know how long ago the flood happened. A lot we can't be sure of. Still waiting on your evidence that Noah did not predate Pangea.

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