tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post1923046610615638383..comments2024-02-29T23:54:20.606-08:00Comments on What had happen' was.....: FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Why don't all animals photosynthesise? (the Problem of Evil revisited)mmcelhaneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-33957589323885792282012-07-13T14:09:27.182-07:002012-07-13T14:09:27.182-07:00http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0...http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/biblical-contradictions-and-christian.htmlJonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-90359169382766778822012-07-12T20:55:09.299-07:002012-07-12T20:55:09.299-07:00Response: http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2012/07/b...Response: <a href="http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2012/07/bible-contradiction-where-did-jesus.html" rel="nofollow">http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2012/07/bible-contradiction-where-did-jesus.html</a>mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-26005815388363303362012-07-12T14:01:08.774-07:002012-07-12T14:01:08.774-07:00Oh, and don't even bother giving me JP Holding...Oh, and don't even bother giving me JP Holding's defence. It's so shit it's NOT funny.Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-21742156923093317802012-07-12T13:58:53.590-07:002012-07-12T13:58:53.590-07:00"Living with fear of death or social ostracis..."Living with fear of death or social ostracisation for 2000 years for thinking otherwise...<br /><br />If you think that is what being a Christian is about...you are doing it wrong."<br /><br />It has been the reality of Christian society throughout the centuries.<br /><br />" just because you don't understand it? I don't thin k that the answers are weak at all and I think its sad that you are unwilling to defend such a bad bald assertion."<br /><br />I understand fine. I disagree.<br /><br />I will humour you. <br /><br />Mark 5:<br />They came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2 When He got out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him, <br /><br />Matt 8:<br />When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.<br /><br />Luke 8:<br />Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27 And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons;<br /><br />Now the standard reply is that they are two towns in the same general region so there is no contradiction. However, this is silly. The contradiction is plain. All accounts use the time connective 'when' which implies in all cases immediacy. When this happened, this happened. Thus, no traveling can be done. Looking at any map, the use of Gerasa is nonsensical (at least 12 miles from Gadara - ie further from the lake) - it is inland and too far for the sense to be made. Here is the hilariously bad bad harmonisation from Barne's noted on the bible:<br /><br />"Country of the Gergesenes - Mark Mar 5:1 says that he came into the country of the "Gadarenes." This difference is only apparent.<br /><br />"Gadara" was a city not far from the Lake Gennesareth, one of the ten cities that were called "Decapolis." See the notes at Matthew 4:25. "Gergesa" was a city about 12 miles to the southeast of Gadara, and about 20 miles to the east of the Jordan. There is no contradiction, therefore, in the evangelists. He came into the region in which the two cities were situated, and one evangelist mentioned one, and the other another. It shows that the writers had not agreed to impose on the world; for if they had, they would have mentioned the same city; and it shows. also, they were familiar with the country. No men would have written in this manner but those who were acquainted with the facts. Impostors do not mention places or homes if they can avoid it."<br /><br />So bad it's funny.<br /><br />Then there is the problem that Matthew clearly states two demons, not one. <br /><br />You will have an answer, no doubt. It's just that to think it is plausible takes some wild gerrymandering.Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-44509773210817226082012-07-12T11:15:43.932-07:002012-07-12T11:15:43.932-07:00Good one Marcus! Good one.Good one Marcus! Good one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-82455693210562832092012-07-12T10:56:19.790-07:002012-07-12T10:56:19.790-07:00All you seem to know how to do is misconstrue.All you seem to know how to do is misconstrue.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-52689618372107576632012-07-12T10:47:33.117-07:002012-07-12T10:47:33.117-07:00Its amazing (and sad) how you will miscontrue some...Its amazing (and sad) how you will miscontrue something just to be able to make a wothless rhetorical "gotcha" statement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-79978427764061422692012-07-12T09:51:09.337-07:002012-07-12T09:51:09.337-07:00Living with fear of death or social ostracisation ...<b>Living with fear of death or social ostracisation for 2000 years for thinking otherwise...</b><br /><br />If you think that is what being a Christian is about...you are doing it wrong. I understand the confusion given the abuses that have been undeniable but that is confusing what the Bible is with what people have said and done. That isn't rational. <br /><br /><b>2000 years to align evidence with faith.</b><br /><br />Careful...that sounds almost like you are admitting that there is evidence you are ignoring because you have not shown how it does not line up with the Bible.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-92181647717891068982012-07-12T02:58:36.006-07:002012-07-12T02:58:36.006-07:00Living with fear of death or social ostracisation ...Living with fear of death or social ostracisation for 2000 years for thinking otherwise...<br /><br />2000 years to align evidence with faith.Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-59584628456839620042012-07-12T01:08:05.546-07:002012-07-12T01:08:05.546-07:00Without God, of course it is beyond you. What I ca...Without God, of course it is beyond you. What I can't understand is the hubris you live with, realizing that people have been believing the Bible for over 2000 years and yet thinking that people have not wrestled with the same parts that bother you. Why would you assume that believer have just ignored rationality and chosen believe things that are contrary to truth - just because you don't understand it? I don't thin k that the answers are weak at all and I think its sad that you are unwilling to defend such a bad bald assertion.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-43308953419085352412012-07-12T00:50:09.501-07:002012-07-12T00:50:09.501-07:00It's your blog. feel free to harmonise away. M...It's your blog. feel free to harmonise away. My point is that I can predict where this will go, probably what you will say, and that you would never change position on anything.<br /><br />I think that Ryan illustrated the point by showing that you don't even entertain a doubt. Philosophically and epistemologically speaking that puts you in a terrible position. Rational skepticism seems to be something you uphonld for EVERYTHING ELSE in your intellectual life, and yet you special plead the bible. You can wax lyrical Peleg and Pangaea as if it is some plausible thesis (it isn't since it defies known science) and then claim absolute confidence in the inerrancy of a human written book. I have shown that Mark simply does not know his Geography and is corrected by Matthew and Luke for which you will have the usual answers. Those answers are weak. There never would have been a herd of 2000 swine - utterly improbable in those days. Gerasenes was changed to Gadarenes by Matthew and yet you will find some contorted gerrymandering which serves to quell any issue. Why you think htese writers, out of all the writers in the world, are the only ones impervious to mistakes when you don't even know who they were is beyond me.Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-64735075086113202922012-07-11T23:03:51.618-07:002012-07-11T23:03:51.618-07:00Are you really so dense that you think I would pre...Are you really so dense that you think I would pretend to read Arabic the way you pretend to read Hebrew and Greek. Perish the thought. The text I'm referring to is the Bible (but you can't read that accurately either even in English).mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-89554460245980568642012-07-11T16:07:09.805-07:002012-07-11T16:07:09.805-07:00Not similar at all.
Totally...
Why don't we ...<b>Not similar at all.</b><br /><br />Totally...<br /><br /><b>Why don't we really look at the text...</b><br /><br />Don't add "pretending to read classical Arabic" to your crimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-1438128470199108072012-07-11T15:26:58.141-07:002012-07-11T15:26:58.141-07:00Not similar at all. Why don't we really look a...Not similar at all. Why don't we really look at the text and see if its as contradictory as you would like to pretend?mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-39174546924873571282012-07-11T15:25:23.287-07:002012-07-11T15:25:23.287-07:00I'll take that as: "No, I am not interest...I'll take that as: "No, I am not interested in rational discussion to see if my conclusions really hold any weight."<br /><br />That's your prerogative.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-14621620835605530672012-07-11T15:24:01.276-07:002012-07-11T15:24:01.276-07:00Some not most. And those that would are not mainst...Some not most. And those that would are not mainstream in the slightest.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-24521493091660736872012-07-11T14:46:22.520-07:002012-07-11T14:46:22.520-07:00Actually, it's also a fact that all Muslims (a...Actually, it's also a fact that all Muslims (at least all who take sura 4:157 at face value) do reconcile it with history by rejecting the prevailing western historical narrative.<br /><br />This is very similar to how you reject the prevailing scientific narrative so you can reconcile numerous parts from your bible (a literal Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, Peleg living on Pangaea, etc...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-76222841075707839312012-07-11T14:21:08.461-07:002012-07-11T14:21:08.461-07:00look, with 2000 years of trying, it is no surprise...look, with 2000 years of trying, it is no surprise that you may have answers for every contradiction. In fact, I know you do. However, those answers are not good enough. They would simply not stand up in a court of law. And this brings me back to one of my original points - that you fall into the possibiliter ergo probabiliter fallacy. Just because there is an answer does not mean to say it is in ANY WAY plausible. <br /><br />Now I believe that the Gospel accounts of the Resurrection are contradictory. I know all the harmonisations that you could give because I have been arguing them for years. They simply do not wash for me, and anyone else who is not presuppositionally committed to the rectitude of the bible. They are, in the main, entirely laughable. So you can wax lyrical all you want. You will no doubt convince yourself. That is not hard. However, convincing someone with sound rational cognitive attributes is another matter.<br /><br />In other words, I am really not interested in hearing your paltry attempts at harmonising the great many contradictions of the bible. I know many good Christians who accept them, and many good Christians who don't. One of my best friends, a trained theologian, the more he learns and studies the bible, the more liberal he becomes in accepting the more plausible hypothesis rather than the one that doctrine commits him to. Simply put, like every other piece of literature on earth, it has its issues. To claim otherwise is to commit yourself to one of the most gargantuan cases of special pleading one can adopt.Jonathan MS Pearcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281228447185474180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-89764162462252171862012-07-11T14:16:54.153-07:002012-07-11T14:16:54.153-07:00It's a fact that some Muslims do try to reconc...It's a fact that <b><i>some</i></b> Muslims do try to reconcile Surah 4:157 with the Bible or history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-57311618897340814902012-07-11T13:48:06.436-07:002012-07-11T13:48:06.436-07:00It's a fact that most Muslims do not try to re...It's a fact that most Muslims do not try to reconcile Surah 4:157 with the Bible or history. And are truly misguided if you reject the historicity of the Crucifixion - only the "sholars" out in left field think that. You are virtually alone. And to suggest otherwise means that you really are not interested in anything but your own imagined reality. Not Truth.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-76689844529794406782012-07-11T13:40:52.172-07:002012-07-11T13:40:52.172-07:00PRovE theyr NOt right!!!1!
The point being, Marcu...PRovE theyr NOt right!!!1!<br /><br />The point being, Marcus, they're rationalizations are no different than any of yours. I'm confident there is no problem with the quran that cannot be reconciled. In this case they either reject the historicity of the crucifixion (not that big of a stretch really) or they reconcile the two texts. Easy peasy.<br /><br />Believers will reconcile anything. Its what you do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-37413363631381959612012-07-11T12:38:35.583-07:002012-07-11T12:38:35.583-07:00The Holy Spirit does not reside in the body of Jes...The Holy Spirit does not reside in the body of Jesus and your googled search does not in anyway represents the majority Islamic interpretation. It's like trying to claim that all Christians are snake-handlers or poison drinkers. You really have no honor or shame do you? You'll misrepresent anyone's text.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-81371993085524607362012-07-11T12:22:33.851-07:002012-07-11T12:22:33.851-07:00Well, al-Safa, al-Razi and al-Shirazi all would ar...Well, al-Safa, al-Razi and al-Shirazi all would argue that sura 4:157 is referring to the holy spirit, which resides in the body of Jesus as the thing that was not being killed or crucified in the sura. The death of the body is what the quran is referring to when it says “it was made to appear to them [that he was killed/crucified]” and that there is actually no contradiction. <br /><br />See, anyone can do it. PBUHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-39292651889242183342012-07-11T11:47:50.838-07:002012-07-11T11:47:50.838-07:00You know I asked for good examples. I know that yo...You know I asked for good examples. I know that you think that these are clear contradictions and I disagree. But rather than just throw assertions back and forth and not getting anywhere. I've seen several of these things from Muslims, and I think it would be really insightful to go through these one by one and clearly explain why you think that they are contradictions and why my explanation is wrong. If you are willing to do that, I'm willing to go through each one of these and let you respond. I also would suggest that if there are any specific passages you want to discuss, you should send them. So how about it? Are you willing?mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1767816867480783958.post-28120934365163632472012-07-11T11:34:59.096-07:002012-07-11T11:34:59.096-07:00You didn't answer my question. Come'on: Bo...You didn't answer my question. Come'on: Book, chapter, and verse.mmcelhaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07567242628894011776noreply@blogger.com