The Terrible C's Part 1 - Charismatic Movement

I was in my Google RSS Reader today and came across three interesting videos on GodTube from a ministry called Ex-Catholics for Christ. The three videos are part of a series called The Terrible C's. Part 1 is about the Charismatic Movement. Part 2 is about Roman Catholicism. Part 3 is about Calvinism. I found the videos very interesting and worth discussing in detail. I will write three posts - one for each video. Here is the first video:



I found several things I disagreed with in this video. By and large there is very little scripture foundation offered for their idea. The men in the video believe several things that I nearly feel out of my seat when I heard them. I will enumerate three of them one by one.
1. The spiritual gifts discussed in the Bible are not in practice today. Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, healing, and other supernatural gifts that the Bible speaks about ended when the last book of the New Testament was completed.
2. Women did not ever speak in tongues
3. No one has spoken in tongues since the Apostles of the first century died and before the 19th century


Here are my responses to each one.
1. They did not offer any scripture to base on their teaching on the cessation of tongues. The only scripture I can even think of may be twisted to say that tongues and signs ended with the closing of scripture is 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 which says

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Many people who use this scripture to prove that tongues and prophecies are over stop at verse 10 and say that the perfect thing that came is the completion of the New Testament. I don't hold to that because although the scripture is completed we still do not know or understand everything. In context, Paul is talking about Jesus' second coming. Then we will understand fully because we will finally be like him and see him as he is.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

2. Where does the Bible say women never spoke in tongues? In the video, the man attempts to summarize the rules Paul passed on from God concerning how to incorporate tongue speaking and prophesying into the order of church services in 1 Corinthians 14. I want to focus on verses 26-40.
What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

In the video, the King James version was appealed to. It says "If any man" but newer translations say "anyone". I looked up the Greek and found that the word being translated in verse 27 as "anyone" is "tis" and it makes no designation according to gender. The Strong number is 1500 and it means "a certain, a certain one". You cannot use this scripture to say women never spoke in tongues in the early church. I realize that I could say something about the verses admonishing women to keep quiet but I will save this for another future post. Additionally, the Bible says in Acts 10:47 that the people at Cornelius' house spoke in tongues. This would have had to include the women in his household.

To be fair, the video is not all wrong.They did point out that according to scripture if there are to be tongues spoken in the environment of a church meeting, there must be an interpretation and if there is not, people need to to keep their tongues to themselves. Unfortunately, not all churches follow this prescription. In addition, it was pointed out that speaking in tongues is the easiest spiritual gift to fake.

3. No proof is offered for the idea that no one has spoken in tongues between the end of the New Testament and the beginning of the Charismatic Movement. I would not say that I am part of the Charismatic Movement, but I am part of a Pentecostal Denomination that does believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. In our history, we have taught in the past that speaking in an unknown tongue (human or heavenly languages) is the proof of being filled with the Holy Spirit, but now many of us believe that speaking in tongues is one of the signs. No where is scripture does it say that Tongues is the best sign of belief. Scripture says that we "...will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:20). We believe this because of the experience of realizing that people were speaking in tongues but not coming to Christ. There must be a change in behavior and a desire to live holy if a person is truly born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

As for the challenge of proving that baptism of the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts still goes on today the one question I have is if you want proof I have to ask what church are you going to where the gifts of the spirit is not being manifested? The same God who empowered the apostles empowers us today. Why are you not seeing miraculous healing? Why is cancer not being healed? Or the lame walk? Or amputated or withered limbs restored? Why are you not seeing true prophesy where God says something and validates it in a miraculous way? There are many recorded examples of these. Some of which I have personally experienced. I know what it's like to be sick with arthritis and medical science not being able to do anything to help me. I was on crutches and constant pain for 5 years and God healed me. No where does the Bible say that He will stop being our everything...the one upon which we must trust and depend on everything. One final scripture about laying hands is found in James 5:14,15. Remember no where does it say that there will come a day when we will no longer need to do this until Jesus returns for his perfect church.

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

Unless you want to argue that telekinesis is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit then you must concede that the elders were laying hands on the sick people they anointed with oil and prayed for.

Biblical Basis - Jesus' Humanity

One of the most important doctrines of Christianity is the fact that Jesus has duel natures. He is 100% man and 100% God. Again, like in the post about Jesus' deity, I will not discuss the Trinity in this post but next week. I'm also skipping the question of Jesus' race. The truth is the color of his skin, while an interesting discussion, has no bearing on a person's identity in a first century context, which is the time Jesus was on earth. It has no bearing on his identity as the Savior of this, his creation.

Instead, I'd like to discuss what the Bible says about Jesus' humanity. One of the gripes some people express about the Gospels is that they do not emphasize the same things. They do not tell all the same stories and when the stories parallel they contain varying degrees of detail and aimed at different audiences. Some folks even try to use these differences to say that the Gospels conflict with one another. I disagree. I can find no contradiction and no conflict. It's important to recognize that each of the four Gospels emphasizes different aspects of Jesus. Matthew was written to Jews and emphasis his kingship and messiah status, focusing on how He fulfills Old Testament prophecies. You can see much about Jewish culture. Mark was written to the Romans and more action oriented. It moves at a more rapid pace and covers nothing of his background before his public ministry and talks more about His deeds. Mark emphasizes Jesus' identity as a Servant. Luke was written to the Greeks. It reads more like what we think of today when we talk about biographies. We see Jesus as a baby, at age 12, and during his public ministry. Luke emphasizes Jesus' humanity. He really was born and had many of the same experiences that we all have to face. In John's Gospel we see Jesus as God. No other Gospel is more blatant on that point. You will notice the John's Gospel contains some of the strongest languages on that point.

Turning attention to Jesus' claim to be fully human, it's important to recognize that his humanity is fundamentally different than ours. Jesus had no taint of sin that permeates the rest of us. He is what God had intended us to be. It is through Jesus and only through Jesus that our humanity can be purely and truly expressed. He always did the right thing and never ever sin. None of the rest of us can say the same thing. Jesus is the second Adam. Paul wrote in Romans 5: 12-19

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobediencee of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

It was only as a man that we could be redeemed from sin and death because it was by a man that we all feel into slavery. In Philippians 2:5-11, Paul also wrote:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We see that Paul taught that Jesus is God and voluntarily became a man and then died for us in humble obedience to save us all. It is important to embrace all things that the Bible teaches about Jesus. A whole book could be written about the Humanity of Christ but I will make one last point based on Hebrews 10:1-10 which says:

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' " First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The entire book of Hebrews is apologetic in nature - it brilliantly defends the faith in light of Judaism. By Chapter 10 the author explains why Jesus' sacrifice was necessary and uses a couple of scriptures from the Old Testament to show the Jesus really did have a human body - a life to be laid down only to be picked back up again. The scriptures quoted were Psalm 40: 6-8 in verse 7. The author makes the point that Christ's incarnation is nothing strange to Judaism. Jesus fulfilled this and many other scriptures from the Old Testament and those that are yet to be fulfilled He will fulfill in His second advent.