Debate: David Wood vs. Ali Ataie: "Who Was Muhammad?"

This is a great debate. Instead of looking at Jesus, this debate turns to look at the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad. The truth is I thought Wood was great. I did not like Ataie's arguments. Wood said the only answers that Islam could give to the objections he raised could be either:
1. Reject the sources or 2. re-interpret the material. Ataie ended up doing both. The most aggregious problem I
 had was that Ataie tried to say the Deuteronomy 18:18-19 was about Muhammad. HOW!!!!? Verses 18 -22 says:

 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.  If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.  But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"  If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

I don't get it. Jews and Christians for centuries believed that God was telling Moses and us that this Prophet was Jewish! Muhammd was not a Jew. No way this could have been about him




YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Is there a Connection Between Jesus and Pythia , the priestess at the Oracle at Delphi?

Image via Wikipedia

There is a thought being perpetrated that  Jesus is no different than the women who served as the Oracles of Delphi. The priestesses were called the Pythia.  Let's look at whether this connection makes any sense. Let's look at two characteristics for comparison: a. The origins of their prophetic abilities and b. The accuracy of their prophecies.

Origins.
Jesus was able to accurately foretell the future because He claimed to be God. In order to understand Jesus, you have to look at the context in which Jesus ministered. Traditionally, prophets in Judaism did not give vague prophecies that can be interpreted any number of ways that were non-verifiable. All the prophecies of the Old Testament can be either demonstrated as having been fulfilled or  are yet to be fulfilled.  According to Jewish tradition, if a prophet is ever shown to be wrong in what he/she said, that prophet was no longer believed. This is the context in which Jesus spoke.

As for the Pythia, it was said that they got their power from the Olympian gods. The thing is it has been shown that the Temple of Delphi sits on three tectonic faultlines and gases such as  ethylene escape up out of the earth. In an enclosed space, exposed for a significant amount of time, ethylene can cause hallucinations and altered states of consciousness.


Accuracy.
Let us use the measuring stick of  Judaism for evaluating prophetic infallibility. If a prophet or prophetess is wrong, even once, then he/she is not from God. While Jesus was one person and many women over a thousand years were the Pythia, it's fair to apply because all of the Pythia claimed to have the same source.

Concerning Jesus, I want to focus on 4 of the prophecies Jesus gave. Repeatedly in all 4 Gospels, Jesus predicted His arrest, torture, and death. Most historians agree that Jesus was right! Jesus predicted the destruction of the Jewish temple. Matthew 24:1,2 says:

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.".

We know Jesus was right because the Romans destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD.Jesus was right again! I want to point out that we can't say that because the account was written after 70 AD, the write just added it and Jesus never said it. The same account is told in Mark 13, which almost everyone dates to before the 70's AD! The third prophecy of Jesus, I'd like to point out is found in Matthew 24:32-35:

 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Many people want to say that Jesus was wrong because not all of the events in verses  4-31 took place during the disciple's generation. However the word translated "generation" could have been rendered "race" as in "human race". Therefore Jesus was not saying that all the signs would be taking place necessarily in the lifetime of those who were hearing him, but before the human race ends.This particular interpretation is not as strong as looking at what thing was Jesus referring to that the generation he spoke to  that would happen in their life time.There isn't any cause to view "these things" as Jesus' second coming. Jesus was referring to the destruction of the temple in particular. And again, that did happen.

The fourth prophecy I'd like to bring up is that Jesus predicted his resurrection three days after his death.Even if you don't believe that, you have to admit that the first Christians believed that. And I know it's true because I have personally experienced the resurrected Christ personally by His changing me.

As for the Pythia, all I  need to do is show how one prophecy is wrong. Many times the Delphic Oracles were open to multiple interpretations. The inquirer would pick the one they liked and if it did not go the way they had interpreted, the inquirer would assume the gods meant one of the other interpretations. Here is an example:

One famous visitor was King Croesus. He was a king in the fifth century BC. He ruled ancient Lydia, now western Turkey. He went to the oracle at Delphi.
“Now, tell me: should I march against the King of Persia? He has a large army.”
“Yes, King Croesus, you should march. Cross the River Halys. After that you will destroy a large kingdom."
King Croesus did march to war with the King of Persia. But King Croesus lost. A kingdom was destroyed. But it was King Croesus’s kingdom

 Clearly Croesus had the wrong understanding or the gods did not understand what he asked. Either way, Jesus' track record is way better. Jesus is unique. 


Sources
Encyclopedia Mythica - Pythia
Wikipedia - Pythia
How were the oracle of Delphi's prophecies always true?
Delphi - Oracle
Famous oracular statements from Delphi

Clash of the Gods Video Gallery

Clash of the Gods is a documentary series that explores the historicity of famous mythology and how they impact society and culture. Great idea. The production is great. The myths are retold and illustrated. And then the question is asked "what is the reality?" Then current theories are presented, I like the series. Also behind the series is the idea that all mythologies/religions are related and parallels are drawn. Most often it seems like the makers of the series intend to make Christianity as being no more true than any of the myths presents and even goes as far as saying many ideas of Christianity are borrowed from pagan mythology! This is being dishonest and is just tacked on without debate or discussion. I've been doing a series of posts debunking such ideas so at least they are giving me fodder on which to base new posts!  So far they have done the following Myths.

Perseus
Zeus
Hades
Hercules
Odessyus
Medusa
Thor
Minitaur


Clash of the Gods Video Gallery