All scholars have a specialty, right? What's mine? As I said in my book Why I Became an AtheistWhat can I say? This is definitely a face palm quote. By his own admission, John Loftus is saying that he concentrates on the big picture? I think that in concentrating on the big picture points explain why he actually misses the big picture: Too many "trees" that he doesn't understand. Thinks like the Trinity and nature of God. And who God is. I've never seen anything that makes me think he knows what the Bible says or what it means. Truly a failure in scholarship., I specialize in the Big Picture. This is true and it's no joke. I gather as much of the relevant material as a mortal can possibly muster and try to make sense of it. Confound it though, all of the Big Picture specialists seem to be gone. I'm a scholar about the Big Picture (i.e., the forest) just as many other specialists are scholars about one of the trees in the forest, or a species of trees. When it comes to the Christian faith, I'm a Big Picture specialist about all things Christian. My specialty is in Countering Christian Apologetics.
This visual guide is excellent. Believers ought to study up on these biases and apply them to their faith just to help conduct an objective study of why they believe. If someone had the time to cut and paste these biases from page 9 onward, I would be grateful. Follow this link then at the bottom there are arrows to turn the page. You might want to click on "Full Screen" icon too. [Hat Tip to Luke at Common Sense Atheism].Look very carefully at this list:
A trial is a good example of an outsider looking in. No thumbs should be on the scales of justice. If there is a conflict of interest a judge or a lawyer should recuse themselves. The jury represents people who are uninvolved peers. None of this describes believers who examine their own faith. The OTF demands the impartiality of agnostic, which is worse on one's own religion but better on the religious faiths one rejects.[End Quote]
In a jury trial not everyone agrees. But that's a jury trial about an event that strictly speaking is "on the boards," that is, it's about an ordinary event rather than a supposed extraordinary miraculous event. The whole reason Christians object to the OTF is because they know their faith will not pass the OTF.
Regardless, someone on a jury should at least be able to justify his decision afterward based on the skepticism of an outsider. One cannot punt to faith when judging the case before him like believers do an every juncture. That is ONLY being fair.
SteveK asks: Why does Loftus think it a problem when rational 'outsiders' conclude that, given the evidence, Atheism is false and Christianity is true?
Those are not our only options! The options are myriad and every bit in between! Besides, a person who rejects Hinduism in India is considered an an atheist, while someone in Saudi Arabia who rejects Islam is considered an atheist, etc. That makes YOU an atheist in the same way since the definition of an atheist is a non-believer. I am simply a non-believer by virtue of the fact that your religion doesn't pass the OTF. I am an atheist just as you are a non-believer in Hinduism or Islam in other countries.
So the choice becomes one between belief and non-belief. There are billions of people on the planet on my side who do not believe in your particular Christian sect. Seems like the jury of impartial peers has spoken.
In a rare, revealing moment on television, CNN's Don Lemon admitted for the first time in public that he was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. While conducting a televised discussion with a group of Bishop Eddie Long supporters Saturday, Lemon recalled abuse that started when he was six-years-old. As reported on Richard Prince's Journal-ism's blog for the Maynard Institute, Lemon said he hid the secret of his abuse until he was 30 years old because of shame.
I have been able to pose the Outsider Test for Faith OTF to a few Christian friends of mine... and this has shown to be very well accepted as a means of seeking and questioning. They agree with the approach, and some have even admitted that they've never given so much as a minute of thought to the outside religions and faiths of the world. The quote "when you understand why you reject the gods of other religions, you'll understand why I reject yours." Powerful quote... because people don't know why they reject the other gods and faiths... so now, the question is brought to their attention... and either they must continue in their blissful ignorance, or begin an honest examination of WHY they believe what they believe.The presupposition is this: No Christians ever think about why reject other religions. This is amazing to me. I must agree that there is truth in there. Many Christians could not really make an adequate defense for why they believe what they believe let alone explain what they believe. This is a silly presupposition because its not true about all Christians. I also really dislike the use of
For me, this is the most honest, non-threatening approach to discussions with a theist.
The quote "when you understand why you reject the gods of other religions, you'll understand why I reject yours."It presupposes that all evidence for any truth claim for all religions are uncompelling and absent. This is false. I'd say that there are many atheists who haven't the foggiest idea what evidences there are for the Bible or Christianity and have never bothered to really look into it. I am a Christian who have looked at and examined evidences and have more than found it compelling. What about those atheists and agnostics who have done the same and come up with a different result? The Bible gives answers - they don't conflict but they must be taken together.
21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." - John 3:21
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:5-8
6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6
24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." Acts 17:24-31
2Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. - 2 Cor 4:2-4
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:Quote of the Day, by Isaac
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." - 1 Corinthians 1:18-19
Yep, that's what I've concluded. I was talking to a Catholic today about Stephen Hawking's new book where he says God doesn't exist based on science. So he responded, "That's why they call it faith." Yep, faith doesn't need scientific evidence. It's irrational. I want everyone to think "Irrational" whenever someone says the word "faith" because that's what it is.Why is this silly? It's silly because he mis-defines "Faith" - at least the way the Bible defines it. "Faith" does not mean you believe something despite evidence to the contrary. I totally agree that is irrational but again that is not what Abraham nor anyone in the Bible was commended for doing. I agree that faith might mean believing something contrary to what you think otherwise would be rational but this is different than rejecting scientific fact that you can objectively prove. Let's look at what the Bible defines as faith.
See? Nothing like what John Loftus says "Faith" is.
- conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
- relating to God
- the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
- relating to Christ
- a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
- the religious beliefs of Christians
- belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
- fidelity, faithfulness
- the character of one who can be relied on
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. - James 3:1
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil. - Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
19 But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. 21 So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them. - Genesis 50:19-21
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. - Romans 8:28-29
