What had happen' was.....: Carl Sagan Quote Worth Consideration!
I had remarked about how chillingly accurate Sagan described our present day and that the Bible said the same thing. Ryan Anderson disagreed and when I said if he understood the Bible as he claims to he must know what scripture passages to which I refer. He said:
I have my suspicions, but I'd like you to commit so we can dissect exactly how easy it is to read anything into loose language.
Sounds fun. Alright, let us commit. There are so many passages to choose from, but let's pick one. Just so that he understands what the challenge is let's state it clearly: Demonstrate how the following scripture referred to below does not describe the world we live in today. For example:
1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. 2 Timothy 3:1-9
Let's make this really fun and open this up to everyone. Feel free suggest other Bible passages or state your own reasons that the passages chosen don't describe I world today. Go ahead. Take your best shot.
[UPDATE - 12-03-2011]
Ryan Anderson and Johnny P have both attempted to argue that 2 Timothy 3:1-9 does not apply today because these are not the "last days". Of course they both think that Paul and the other first generation Christians believed Jesus would return in their lifetimes. I fail to understand why that matters. Jesus did not say that he would return before the end of the first century, but they would have been stupid to not live like Jesus would imminently return just like Christians are stupid today if we don't. That is if we believe what we say we believe.
Notice what the Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:1.One of the arguments unbelievers rely on is the idea that God can't exist and be what Christians believe about him and their exist evil and suffering. But Johnny P has to mitigate that if he wants to argue that these days are not the last days. Are they terrible days or not? If it is, then you have to look further into Paul's argument. If it isn't, then you can't invoke the Problem of Evil against Theism.
Verses 2-5 perfectly describe the evil in the world today and it is getting worse. They describe Congress alone, let alone the rest of the world!
Verses 6-9 I think applies more to the Church than the world. The world ignores a lot of teaching instructing - the godless and otherwise. What is the most telling is how we have so many clergy teaching one things living something else.
