FacePalm of the Day: Debunking Christianity: Richard Carrier On The Eclipse of the Sun At The Death of Jesus

John Loftus posted an argument that Dr Richard Carrier has included in his upcoming book, claiming that the Bible's truthfulness is discredited by the claim that Darkness covered the world for three hours  while Jesus was alive and on the cross and there is no other record of it happening.  Here is what Loftus posted. 

I've received an uncorrected advance reading copy of Richard Carrier's book Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus. I'll say more about it later after I've finished reading it. But he highlights a serious problem for inerrantists that I'd like to share. In chapter three he evaluates the claim of the gospels that at the death of Jesus "there was darkness over the whole world from the sixth hour until the ninth" (Mark 15:33; Matthew 27:45; Luke 23:44-45). If it was meant to be taken literally per Luke, who claims it was an eclipse of the sun ("...for the sun stopped shining"), it could not have happened.

Why? Because a three hour eclipse over the whole world is scientifically impossible. They only last a few minutes, not three hours. They do not cover the whole earth at the same time either, since they only cover parts of it as earth revolves. An eclipse additionally could not have occurred during the Passover, for the Passover was always celebrated during the full moon. This means the moon was on the opposite side of the earth from the sun at that time. Lastly, the entire world at the time had its astrologer/astronomers and not one of them mentioned it. Carrier writes, "This is a slam dunk argument...establishing beyond any reasonable doubt the non-historicity of this solar event."

One of the comments on the post bears careful scrutiny because it attempts to deal with Christian answers to the objection Carrier and Loftus are trying to run up the proverbial flag pole:

extian

John, you might be aware that many apologists like to point out that the passages never specifically mention an eclipse, only a "darkness" and that "the sun stopped shining" - a supernatural event with no natural reference. They will quote Africanus (AD 221) who referenced Thallus, a first-century historian, as corroborating the darkness event.

The problem is that we don't have Thallus' original words, we don't know where he got his sources, and we don't know if Africanus was right in assuming that the "darkness" Thallus refers to was actually the same "darkness" described in the crucifixion story. Thus, the "darkness" remains uncorroborated.

I believe Richard Carrier wrote an article on this on infidels.org, but he also might've included it in this book.

I have indeed heard this defense against the charge that the darkness did not happen. Ironically, extian states the argument better than Loftus does. .Three of the four gospels say it did. Let's look at the passages.

³³ At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. - Mark 15:33

⁴⁵ From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. - Matthew 27:45

⁴⁴ It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, ⁴⁵ for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. - Luke 23:44-45

The sun not shining is definitely not an eclipse. I would not go that far as throwing out the account. I think that no one has enough data to say that it didn't happen and therefore throwing out the Gospels is not just not warranted but silly. I'm amazed how much much weight is being given to Dr Richard Carrier. Loftus does not make it clear whether he is stating that the darkness was caused by an eclipse or is it just him saying that. Either way, it greatly undermines the argument against the Gospel accounts because none of them say it was an eclipse.

Debunking Christianity: Richard Carrier On The Eclipse of the Sun At The Death of Jesus

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• Non-Biblical Sources which Document the Historical Jesus (compassioninpolitics.wordpress.com)

Scholar Interview: Craig Keener - Apologetics 315

Brian Auten posted his interview with Dr Craig Keener on his research on Miracles. Anyone who has an interest in why we can accept Biblical miracles are reliable should listen to this audio interview!

Scholar Interview: Craig Keener - Apologetics 315

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Using John 10:30 Accurately

James White has posted a video in which he explains how we can understand John 10:30 as more than just a "proof-text" for the Trinity.

I and the Father are one.” - John 10:30

 





This video is very important especially given the fact that this verse is used by both Trinitarians and Oneness folks like the man in the next video.

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Using John 10:30 Accurately

Ehteshaam Gulam vs James White

I came across a video last night on YouTube raising the same tired accusation about the scholarly credentials against Dr James White:








This isn't a new video or a new accusation. Basically, Dr White is a brilliant scholar and a very able debater. I find this objection raised against him from people who are either too scared to debate him, or have been so humbled publicly they have to desperately grope in the darkness for some weapon to try to hit him with. It's truly sad and pathetic. Dr White has answered such accusations many times and if you want to know what he has to say on it, read the following link on his blog:

Of Doctorates and Eternity (Part 1)
Of Gary Novak and the Columbia River
"The Saga of Accreditation" 

But it made me wonder why would Ehteshaam Gulam go through such lengths to try to make Dr. White look bad? Coincidentally, I saw three tweets from Dr. White the next night that answered the question for me.

I had seen the debate back in 2009 but it appears that only now has Dr White has been able to see it, and I have to agree Mary Jo Sharp handled Ehteshaam Gulam. He was toasted. I have heard Dr White refer to a Gulam and his antics and cyber stalking before but this was the first time I realized that he is the same man who debated Mary Jo Sharp.From this it doesn't take long to find out how all this got started between Gulam and White. And it's not just because White is a Christian and Gulam is a Muslim.

Back in June 2010, Dr James White was  to debate Sheikh Ahmed Awal but Awal backed out of it the last minute. Ehteshaam Gulam was supposed to be a replacement for a "discussion". At the time, Dr White blogged about it and said that it was horrible and much of an embarrassment for Ehteshaam Gulam and for Muslims. I truly admire Dr White for not seeking to decimate people and embarrass them more than necessary. However some people just will not let you be nice to them. Gulam accused White of hiding their "debate" so Dr White posted the entire thing on YouTube and a complete documentation of what happened in the way of background.








Just how bad and one-sided was it? It was so one-sided Ehteshaam Gulam felt the need to post two videos to try to make up for it. Notice how in the beginning how he characterizes the encounter










Obviously Ehteshaam Gulam thought he got some points and thoughts because also released the following:



It seems silly. Wasn't Gulam supposed to have prepared scholarly responses to James White when he had his "debate" with him June 21, 2010? Look at what the man is saying. He's whining because Dr White didn't link to his responses. If these video are his prepared and scholarly response, what would he call what he brought June 21, 2010?

I decided to do a little more digging to see if Dr. White had posted anything more on  Ehteshaam Gulam because I could not remember. Turns out if you are interested in this, you must read

Ehteshaam Gulam: Islamic Cyber Stalker

In this post, Dr White documents how for an extended period of time Gulam has been trying to bully Dr. White's ministry into taking down the video from June, 2010. Dr White wrote the following from the above link:

Now, all of a sudden, Mr. Gulam has become an Internet stalker making blackmail demands that we remove the video that he himself demanded we post in the first place! At one point Ehteshaam said I had "ruined his life" by posting it--and in the next tweet said he was kidding. In any case, he has taken to creating new Twitter accounts each time I, and others, block him, all to spam everyone with links to his lame attempts to attack me personally, all because he won't do his own homework and deal with what I have said openly and consistently about my educational background. The cost for him to start acting his age and not like a twelve year old with a fast internet connection? I must remove that video.

Now, some might be tempted to connect Ehteshaam's behavior to Islam, and say he is seeking to put me in a position of dhimmitude. Well, he may well be thinking that, but I do not see it that way. There are lots of immature, mean-spirited people out there who harass us regularly. Many of them claim to be Christians and wouldn't know how to spell dhimmitude, let alone know what it means. So I see Mr. Gulam as simply an angry cyber-stalker who, for some reason, has decided to lash out at some perceived injury, all the while knowing inside he is the one who brought the injury on himself, both by foolishly engaging in the "discussion" we had, and then foolishly demanding I post it publicly! 

It's truly sad that people would rather throw accusations and bad mouth others instead of providing a good response. If Gulam is correct than why resort to such tactics? I agree with Dr. White that it is just wrong to assume that all Muslims are like Gulam in this regard when we all know that some people who claim to be Christians do far worse. The best things anyone can do is to not be like that. The Holy Spirit does not need it in order to draw people. I'm also glad that Dr. White did not remove the video but instead stood his ground  for truth - Him and his small, but dedicated ministry. I've been watching and learning from Dr White for a while now, and despite a couple of minor things I disagree with, I find him solid and honest in his dealings with others. His work has truly been a blessing and people like Gulam can in no way stop what God is doing through Alpha and Omega Ministries.