Islam and Christianity A Common Word: An Ancient Christian Art: Quoting Out of Context pt 1

Thegrandverbalizer has written a piece that demands a response because it is well-written. My responses are in red This part 1.

Quoting out of context or "quote mining" is a logical fallacy and type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

Source:Engel, Morris S., With Good Reason: An Introduction to Informal Fallacies (1994), pp. 106-107ISBN 0-312-15758-4

I agree with this definition.

Many times we as Muslims see our Christian brothers and sisters claiming that we quote their scriptures "out of context". We as Muslims also see that Christians many times quote our Qur'an and narrations attributed to the Prophet Muhammed (saw) "out of context".

I must concur because he is correct. It doesn't matter how careful he or I are in not misrepresenting anyone because there are many "Christians" and Muslims who don't care.

I would like to humbly suggest to my Christian brothers and sisters to read this article carefully. It is my contention that Christianity as a faith today would not exist were it not for the deft craft of quote mining done by writers of the New Testament to pass Christianity off as something legitimate.

Um..I've got to disagree. The writers of the New Testament did not quote mine and none of them (except for Luke who was a gentile) thought of themselves outside of a Jewish context.

Very creative imaginations were at work in making many text of the TNCH or 'Old Testament' say things that in their original context had no such meaning at all! Of course Christians will come up with very clever propositions.

This is a bold statement. I understand him to be charging the New Testament with lying and collusion.

They will tell us Muslims, "Well you see, this is a double application prophecy". The problem with a nation of a 'dual prophecy' is that it is unbiblical. This was a term crafted by Christian apologist who had to explain away some of the glaring problems you are about to see.

What Bible passage is he referring to that say that there is no such thing as dual prophecy? No example is given.

So here we go let's see if I can use Christian sources and Christian scholars alone to make my case.

Unlike some people who use Atheist, Liberal, Jewish or Christian scholars who "quote mine" Muslim sources and scholars. You know who you are. (wink, wink)

Thank God that you are not going to to use "Atheist, Liberal, Jewish or Christian scholars who 'quote mine' Muslim sources and scholars!" There surely enough of that. And please don't use Muslim sources and scholars who quote mine Atheist, Liberal, Jewish or Christian scholars. There are enough of them too.

One of the arguments that Christian apologist often try and advance to show that the Bible is true are all those 'amazing prophecies'. I mean what are the odds right? What are the odds that these 'thousands' of prophecies could be fulfilled to the minute detail?

But let us look at this claim objectively. Let us step outside of ourselves for a moment and see if these claims are true. Are we going to see amazing prophecies fulfilled before our very eyes?

Or we will see crafty quote mining at work?

Here comes the nitty gritty!

(Matthew 2:14-15)

14

Joseph rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed for Egypt.

15

⁸ He stayed there until the death of Herod, that what the Lord had said through the prophet might be fulfilled, "Out of Egypt I called my son."

So here you have it. There is a prophecy some where that was stated that one day God will call his son out of Egypt! What are the odds of that happening? So than the question arises where was this 'prophecy' taken from?

⁸ [15] The fulfillment citation is taken from Hosea 11:1. Israel, God's son, was called out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus; Jesus, the Son of God, will similarly be called out of that land in a new exodus. The father-son relationship between God and the nation is set in a higher key. Here the son is not a group adopted as "son of God," but the child who, as conceived by the holy Spirit, stands in unique relation to God. He is son of David and of Abraham, of Mary and of Joseph, but, above all, of God.

(http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew2.htm)

So as we can see the prophecy is taken from Hosea 11:1. Wow! Are you excited? I am! Let's go and check it out shall we?

¹ When Israel was a child I loved him, out of Egypt I called my son. (Hosea 11:1)

Well my excitement as died down a bit what about you? This text says 'Israel' was a child. It does not say Jesus was a child. It does not even say 'In the future I will call my son out of Egypt'.

However, let's be fair and continue on to verse no. shall we?

The more I called them, the farther they went from me, Sacrificing to the Baals and burning incense to idols. (Hosea 11:2)

Whoa Nelly! What is this all about? What does the following mean: The more I called THEM? What does 'THEY' went from me mean? You mean God's son is going to sacrifice to baals and burn incense to idols? My apologies to my Christian brothers and sisters. I really respect you and your faith.

However, if there was a Christian on Earth who would dare suggest that Jesus worshiped idols know that these are fighting words!

So much for a prophecy awaiting fulfillment. The original context of this verse does not speak about Jesus at all! The only way for Christians to say that Hosea 11:1 speaks about Jesus is to use quote mining. You have to completely ignore the context.

Verse 2 of Hosea 11 does not speak about Jesus in any way shape or form! Christians should be ashamed of them selves! Hosea 11 was never about any future prophecy to begin with. Only the imagination of the alleged gospel writer Matthew.


I see the confusion. Matthew was referring only to verse 1 not verse 2. Do you really thing the "they" of verse 2 are the same as the Israel that was called out of Egypt? No they are not. The worship of the Baals came later - centuries after the Exodus.

Islam and Christianity A Common Word: An Ancient Christian Art: Quoting Out of Context