God's miracles are surely wondrous!
John Loftus posted a link to Justin Brierley podcast called Unbelievable? The podcast he is interested in should be of interest to all of us a debate on the origin of
Nazi ideology. Did it come from Darwinism or an anti-semitic
Christianity? The debate is between Dr
Richard Weikart who is a Christian and professor of History at
California State University and Dr
Hector Avalos who is an atheist and Professor of
Religious Studies at
Iowa State University. The link is
Unbelievable? 16 Jul 2011 - Debating Nazi Ideology I have to confess I've gotta laugh at the notion of "
anti-Judaism Christianity" because it's a contradiction in terms. There have been many
inconsistent idiots people who claimed to be "Christians" but hate Jews but given that you can't get any more Jewish than Jesus they can't possibly be real Christians. Forgive me for being logical. I'm glad John Loftus is listening to Brierley's podcast because it will help him.
Debunking Christianity: Dr. Avalos vs. Dr. Weikart: The Rematch
There have been many inconsistent idiots who claimed to be "Christians" but hate Jews but given that you can't get any more Jewish than Jesus they can't possibly be real Christians.
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying Martin Luther was an inconsistent idiot? Further, where all these alleged inconsistent idiots throughout history living in a vacuum devoid of christian culture? Just curious.
A person's not an inconsistent idiot just because they are not a christian. I didn't say that. I said that one who claims to be Christian and yet hates Jews, one is inconsistent because Jesus is Jewish. And yes, IF Martin Luther hated Jews he was an inconsistent idiot. Being saved doesn't keep any of us from being an inconsistent idiot about something. The change to be become more like Jesus is not something that happens completely and quickly. It takes time. But that is what the Holy Spirit is for. Now, Ryan, considering we are inconsistent idiots and still sin even after we get saved on our way to perfection, how messed up you are without God without any hope of getting out of your inconsistency or stupidity.
ReplyDeleteI also have point out that you should do more research on Martin Luther's antisemitism. I suggest you looks at James Swans research at Beggars All Reformation and Apologetics You can use the help.
OK, speaking of inconsistency...
ReplyDeleteMarcus said "There have been many inconsistent idiots people who claimed to be "Christians" but hate Jews but given that you can't get any more Jewish than Jesus THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY BE REAL CHRISTIANS." [emphasis mine]
Then Marcus said "IF Martin Luther hated Jews he was an inconsistent idiot. Being saved doesn't keep any of us from being an inconsistent idiot about something"
Wait, I thought they "they can't possibly be real christians"? So you can be saved and not be a real christian?
Please advise.
As for Luther; I suggest you read Luther...
ReplyDeleteWait, I thought they "they can't possibly be real christians"? So you can be saved and not be a real christian?
Please advise.
Wait, Ryan, I apologize for not being more precise. Given that you have never actually been a Christian yourself it is not surprising you are confused. Let me help.
Martin Luther was a Christian. It doesn't take logical consistency to be a Christian. It take believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. Nothing else. That said, during a person's spiritual development one might be an antisemite or a racist but you can't call yourself a Christian and retain attitudes like this. The Holy Spirit does not allow us to stay where we are when we get saved. We have to grow. Therefore I'm not saying that all Christians are perfect. I'm saying that if you hate someone you should check your salvation. 1st John 4:20
20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
[being a christian] take believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. Nothing else.
ReplyDeleteYou sure about that? I did that.
So Luther wasn't a christian then?
If you did, you still would believe because you would have been born-again. You can't be unborn-again.
ReplyDeleteLuther was born again. But that doesn't mean he wasn't an inconsistent idiot when it came to how he saw Jews. Being right about Jesus and being wrong about Jews are not mutually exclusively. Same thing vice versa.
If you did, you still would believe because you would have been born-again.
ReplyDeleteSays you.
Being right about Jesus and being wrong about Jews are not mutually exclusively.
Again, I thought people "can't possibly be real Christians" but hate Jews? I mean, that is what you said. "Can't possibly..."
And for the record, Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen (On the Jews and Their Lies) was published the year before he died. Doesn't seem that you can say he "grew out of" his antisemitism based on that fact alone.
ReplyDeleteSo he wasn't saved?
If you did, you still would believe because you would have been born-again.
ReplyDeleteSays you.
Says the Bible. You remember? What you say you used to believe? Right.
Being right about Jesus and being wrong about Jews are not mutually exclusively.
Again, I thought people "can't possibly be real Christians" but hate Jews? I mean, that is what you said. "Can't possibly..."
I did apologize already for not being clear and recognizing that I confused you. What I was trying to explain to you (and follow this time) is that you cannot be a Christian and remain in your sins but that doesn't mean you will be delivered from all of them all at once. We won't truly be like Jesus until we see Jesus.
God does not wait for us to be perfect before we are declared righteous, but He works in our lives to improve us. Martin Luther was indeed saved but that doesn't mean that when he died he was perfect and without flaw. I never meant to suggest that was even possible on this side of life. Again the point I raised was that you can't call yourself a Christian and think it's okay to hate Jews or anyone. I was thinking primarily of the Klu Klux Klan and the Aryans. If any of those people are truly saved, God is working in them to remove such crap out of their lives. We all have crap that need to be clean away. Not all of it is racism or antisemitism. Sometimes it's the arrogance that says we know better than God and that the supernatural can't happen. (you know?...one of your problems).
Ryan, I'd be more concerned about my own salvation than Martin Luther's if I were you. He was saved when he died and you are not. His life is done and He trusted God. There is still hope for you. Who's in the better position? Him.
What I was trying to explain to you (and follow this time) is that you cannot be a Christian and remain in your sins but that doesn't mean you will be delivered from all of them all at once.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet Luther hated Jews up to a year before he died. Yet you said...
Marcus "Luther was born again."
When was he "born again"? when he nailed the 95 thesis or when he wrote Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen"
Again the point I raised was that you can't call yourself a Christian and think it's okay to hate Jews or anyone.
And yet Luther did, until , at least a year before he died.
He was saved when he died...
How would you even know??? He wrote "Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen" the year before he died? He wrote nothing after that that indicated he changed his position as far as I know. So what do you know?
So no concession about the pastafarian headgear post?
Luther was saved when he gave his life to Christ. Unlike you. You don't understand how it's not about you doing it. God saves you inspite of you not because of you. That is why you can be saved and still have issues. Hating Jews don't makes you unsaved it means you are just inconsistent and wrong. It's interesting to me that you refuse to listen to me try to help u out of your confusion. Feel free to stay ignorant.
ReplyDeleteAs for the pastafarian headgear, what is it that you want me to concede?
And yet Luther hated Jews up to a year before he died.
ReplyDeleteWhich means there is hope for an unregenerate apostate like you!
ReplyDeleteOh I'm regenerate, I regenerated this weekend when kayaking with my Daughter, and this morning when she blew me a kiss walking into school. Before that, I regenerated date night with my Wife and then again watching the two of them play with each others hair, before that I regenerated while mountain biking at dawn, then there was a trip to the mountains and that time on my sailboat...
ReplyDeleteCan you demonstrate that your regeneratedness is any different than mine? And I mean demonstrate, not just assert.
But I do love the term apostate, I think I'll change my face book status to apostate.
Use the Biblical definition of the term and I'll answer your question. Nice emotional punt. Totally irrelevant but nice try. Good thing God love you.
ReplyDeleteNice emotional punt.
ReplyDeleteSays the guy who didn't answer the question. I don't believe the biblical definition (the supernatural one) is valid, so I'll just assume you cannot demonstrate that what you think you've experienced in "biblical regeneration" is any different any other sort of natural regeneration. So there we are.
Bait and switch. The supernatural definition is the definition. You can't just change it. If you accept the Biblical definition of "regeneration" and yet just misdefined it, I don't think you know what it is. You have never experienced it so I'm not surprised. So how about doing this right and showing that you have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about and use the Bible to back it up.
ReplyDeleteSo you're not going to demonstrate that what you understand as "regeneration" is different from what I understand as regeneration. I didn't think you could.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I did. you are the one mixing apples and microchips. You prove you understand what "regeneration" is first and then I'll answer your question. Otherwise, you are wasting my time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I did.
ReplyDeleteWhere?????????
And to be fair, I asked first, but since you are pathological in your avoidance of questions you know you can't answer (and because you are an infant), here's my take on "biblical" regeneration, whoever wrote Ephesians sums up what I think most christian sects agree is the meaning of regeneration, see Ephesians 2:1-10.
Now, demonstrate that what you perceive to be biblical "regeneration" in your life is actually any different in any way than what anyone else senses as any other type of regeneration in their life. You've not been able to demonstrate in any way any sort of supernatural influence, be it an indwelling of the holy spirit or whatever, so I don't hold out much hope for you on this one, but seriously, good luck with that.
Response: http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-does-it-mean-to-be-regenerate.html
ReplyDelete