It's so cute when John Loftus attempts humor while on his crusade against Christianity. He posted the following meme attempt and linked to more.
I immediately had an issue with this but not for just the reasons that some people made in the comments.
They point out "rejection" and "criticism" cannot be conflated and still make sense, but I think that there is another issue. What does the fact that some Christians think it's okay to reject and criticize Islam but never read anything of the Qur'an have anything to do with Atheists being ignorant about the Bible? It doesn't. You should not reject other people's beliefs and tell them to change those beliefs if you don't know what those beliefs are.
As for the other meme:
Three problems. First, I think the author is confusing scientists with atheists. Not the same thing. Second, no Bible believing Christian believes that God made the universe using magic. No, that sounds like atheists who think that the universe brought itself into existence. Third, Biblical faith isn't blind. Oh and for free, Christians do not believe that God cares and loves only us. He loves everyone who has or ever will exist. That's not arrogance. Claiming that all scientists are atheists? Now that's arrogant.
And here is another Loftus linked to.
Atheists prove that they don't have an objective foundation for Morality, but Christians are not arguing that God has an objective touchstone for His morality. Christians believe that God is the grounding and foundation for morality.
Epic failure.
Debunking Christianity: A New Meme, The Oblivious Christian Apologist
Just out of curiosity, have you ever read the Qu'ran? Cover to cover?
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, have you read the Bible cover to cover? I don't doubt you have, but I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't.
no Bible believing Christian believes that God made the universe using magic.
ReplyDeleteWhat mechanism did god use? Can you describe it? Equations?
No, I haven't read the entire Qur'an cover to cover, and I'm sure you haven't. Of course I have read the entire Bible cover-to-cover. On top of that I'm very sure you haven't and you don't know Physics as well as I do either
ReplyDeleteAs for equations that God used to make the universe, refer to
http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2009/08/god-said-importance-of-mathematics.html
...and I'm sure you haven't.
ReplyDeleteand like most things you are "sure" of, your wrong.
On top of that I'm very sure you haven't
Twice, cover to cover. Various books, especially the gospels, countless times.
As for equations...
No, I said what mechanism did god use to create the universe? Can you describe it? Equations?
Not what equations we use to describe the universe (facet of) now.
So...just how many times have you read the Qur'an? You are saying you read it, right? And where is your apology for saying that I haven't read the whole Bible? I am big enough to admit
ReplyDeletethat I mistook your inability to comprehend the Bible for you not having read it. Sorry, my bad. Also there is single equation we have now that dedescribe the universe. You asked for equations that God used to create the universe but that is all equations do: describe the universe mathematically - like words do in otber languages. God spoke the universe into existence. Giving maxwell's equations is the same thing as just saying "light". you keep showing your lack of insight.
So...just how many times have you read the Qur'an?
ReplyDeleteOnce.
And where is your apology for saying that I haven't read the whole Bible?
My, you are sensitive. You'll note I said I don't doubt you've read the bible.
Giving maxwell's equations is the same thing as just saying "light".
It's really not.
My, you are sensitive. You'll note I said I don't doubt you've read the bible.
ReplyDeleteThen the mistake is mine. And I'm sorry I mistook your previous comment.
but when I said "Giving maxwell's equations is the same thing as just saying "light"." You said.
It's really not.
Three UC Berkeley Professors of Physics and the books I used say different. Do you even know the beauty of mathematics and what it really is? It's another language. A beautiful and awesome language. In mathematics, we see the very thoughts of God.
Let me clearer. My professors did not talk about God but they did say that Maxwell's eqns completely describe light
ReplyDeleteYou're missing something critical, but hey, you're the "scientist", right, so I'm sure you can figure it out.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, these equations are partially describing what we know about light today. They do not in any way describe how the universe was created. You've got equations for that, I assume?
Guy: "How did god make gravity?"
Dingbat: "F=Gm1m2/r^2"
Guy: "Um, no..."
I don't think you know enough of Physics to tell me a single thing about light that is not covered in Maxwell's equations. And don't bring up special relativity because that doesn't describe light but what happens to object traveling at near light speeds.
ReplyDeleteEquations that describe light describe one of the things God Created. And while you may bristle at the way I describe the importance of mathematics but Isaac Newton looked at things that way and he is way more intelligent than you.
And while you may bristle at the way I describe the importance of mathematics...
ReplyDelete???
But you've still only described (partially) things that exist.
We don't have an equation for everything. God knows what it is however.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't have an equation, you cannot make claims about something, well, you can't make claims that mean anything.
ReplyDeleteNo human has such an equation but that does not mean that the one who made everything does not know what it is. I never claimed to know what it is. We only know part of it today.
ReplyDeleteNo human has such an equation but that does not mean that the one who made everything does not know what it is.
ReplyDeleteIt means you have no warrant to claim it exists.
Ohn noooo. Stop the presses!! Some one should tell all the physicist all over the world looking for the "grand unifying" equation that they should stop looking because Ryan Anderson thinks that there is no warrant to claim that it exists.
ReplyDeleteI said you are not warrented to make any claims concering how your hypothetical deity created the universe.
ReplyDeleteI assume you can see the difference between that statement and the one you strawmanned. But maybe I shouldn't...
Let's review. I said
ReplyDeleteNo human has such an equation but that does not mean that the one who made everything does not know what it is. I never claimed to know what it is. We only know part of it today.
You said
It means you have no warrant to claim it exists.
I think it is totally reasonable to think that the "it" you are referring to is the equation under discussion not God. No straw man here. And how silly are you? How does the existence or non-existence of such an equation say anything about if there is a supreme being who made everything? Hint: it doesn't disprove God either way. However if there is such an equation it speaks to there being a mind who put it together. Sucks for you.
I think it is totally reasonable to think that the "it" you are referring to...
ReplyDelete"It" is the mechanism god use to create the universe. You have no warrant to claim that a god created the universe in the absence of evidence and functioning models.
Clear?
Not clear. Who are you to say that there is no evidence? You are willing to deny and ignore the evidence to make yourself feel better. You keep showing yourself biased and unable to see past your own biases. There are many models that scientist has suggested and they are no worse than those models that deny and ignore God.
ReplyDelete