FacePalm of the Day #70 - Debunking Christianity: Quote of the Day, by Russ

Russ and John Loftus obviously have a warped view of Christianity. 

If Bible-god was real wouldn't it know best how I would accept its reality? If it was real wouldn't its message be free to anyone and everyone? So why does it send it's message through people we have to pay for it, the Christian clergy? If god was real it would speak to me with full understanding of what I know and understand; it wouldn't work in mysterious ways. It would be very clear and its actions would make its reality obvious. It amazes me that I'm told that Bible-god is my father, but everything I can know about him comes through third party clerics and theologians. If Bible-god was real, I would know because it would tell me, its son, in a way that I could understand and know was real.

If you think it takes paying money to people to get messages from God, then you are not hearing from the God of the Bible. No where does the Bible teach that people who minister in the church should become wealthy off of the backs those they serve. Maybe the reason why Russ has not heard from God is because he has spent too much time listening to the wrong sources - such individuals that are teaching errors like we need to pay them to hear from God. Another important issue is the at the God of the Bible is not an impersonal "it" and if that is what Russ is looking for, no wonder he can't find the God of the Bible.  I realized that many people say they are looking for God to reveal himself to him, yet hasn't gotten anything. Here are a few verses to help in that source.

²² Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. ²³ For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
 ²⁴ “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. ²⁵ And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. ²⁶ From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. ²⁷ God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. ²⁸ ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
 ²⁹ “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. ³⁰ In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. ³¹ For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” - Acts 17:22-31

The Bible clearly says that we are where we need to be to best find God, placed by God himself.

⁶ And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.  - Hebrews 11:6

Faith is not  believing something you make up despite evidence or lack of evidence. It is trust born of relationship that grows as you get to know God better and better. A good example of what the faith looks like is what Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego said to Nebuchadnezzar when they faced being executed because they would not worship anyone but God.

¹⁶ Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. ¹⁷ If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. ¹⁸ But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” - Daniel 3:16-17

How did  they know? Because of the relationship they had with God. Any of us can have such a relationship. It's more than knowing that God exists it's knowing his ways and not just what he does. It is about knowing who God is and what He commands us to do. If you wanna know God intimately, start with the Bible.



Debunking Christianity: Quote of the Day, by Russ

William Lane Craig vs. Lawrence Krauss Debate Audio - Apologetics 315

I liked this debate. I think Dr. Krauss is interesting. He said that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I liked the response to this found here.

He claims that Dr. Craig says that the universe is so complex and makes no sense to us but nonetheless true. I agree totally! The problem is why isn't that hold for God's existence?

I disagree that Dr. Craig argues that God exists because we don't know how it came into being. I also disagree that God creating universe means there is no need to ask "Why?" or find out "How?" It makes me want to search and know more. The reason being in studying the creation we get to know its Creator better.

Why does Krauss seem to think that only scientific evidence is only "good" evidence? Krauss kept talking as evidence only counts if it is falsifiable yet no one really believes that you can only make rational decisions using falsifiable evidence.

Krauss really flubs up the philosophy, but Craig stays away from areas of science he hasn't studied.


Krauss is wrong that all scientist agree with him that the universe is fine-tuned for life. Of course he thinks that there is aliens on other planets. If the universe isn't fine tuned, why would there be life?

I have visceral reaction to Krauss' argument that a belief in God necessarily means that you don't need to study how the universe works. Why?

Krauss is not a debator and it shows. He is a brilliant physicist, but not the best philosopher

Krauss lost my respect when he argued that the Universe might be future eternal to argue that it does not matter that the universe may not be past eternal. I've heard him argue that the universe had a beginning from nothing and an end in a previous lecture.

Krauss seems to think that fine-tuning means that if there was a meaning, purpose, or grand design because the universe does not look like he thinks it should...which is what he started accusing theists of doing when he did his opening statement.

This debate is extremely interesting and I was wondering how these too would fair facing each other. For not being a debater, Krauss did not do awful but he was too condescending and insulting to Dr. Craig. Craig handled it like a professional. Go to Apologetics 315 to get the audio link. The video and slides can be seen here. You can see the homepage for the debate here.

William Lane Craig vs. Lawrence Krauss Debate Audio - Apologetics 315