People this is why I do what I do! Every year more and more conservative Christians are letting the cat out of the bag in subtle and profound ways! I knew it was a matter of time. I have been saying it for a long time now. Mash'Allah James White brings Christianity closer to Islam in subtle yet profound ways!
Read on...
Not that he answered my question.
Recently on an internet basement pod cast Christian apologist James White admitted that the New Testament contains the following:
1) That which we know is said about Jesus without doubt.
2) That which we know is said about Jesus but there is some doubt.
3) That which is attributed to Jesus but is extremely weak.
4) That which is attributed to Jesus but is an outright fabrication.
Praise be to Allah! Thank you James for your honesty at last!
Listen for yourself! I have saved this program as well in case James White has it removed.
http://aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=4721
I listened to that broadcast myself when it was done live and Dr James White did not say that the New Testament was errant. He was referring to textual variants. He was in now way saying that we don't know what text says.
I listened to that broadcast myself when it was done live and Dr James White did not say that the New Testament was errant. He was referring to textual variants. He was in now way saying that we don't know what text says.
Christian Apologist James White Admits New Testament contains fabrications and weak chains of narration!
No He didn't.
No He didn't.
At 43:25 minutes into the dividing line program he says,
"as soon as you start taking for example the various stories of the companions of things that happened in Muhammad's life outside of the Qur'an you immediately see what you actually have with the New Testament!"
I wonder if thegrandverbalizer listened to the 43:25 minutes that went before? Because if he had he would have realized that Dr White was referring to the fact that there would be textual variants of the Qur'an.
That is a most fascinating claim on behalf of James White! It deserves considerable attention!
If you ask any Sunni Muslim about 'the various stories of the companions of things that happened in Muhammad's life outside of the Qur'an' or simply called the Hadith you will find out the following:
What about Muslims that aren't Sunnis would they agree?
Hadith means story. Hadith in Islam mean a written body of literature that is a record of statements, contracts and actions of the Prophet Muhammad otherwise called 'Sunnah'.
Now what you will also find out is that this body of literature 'the hadith' contains the following.
1) That which we know that Muhammad said without a doubt.
2) That which we know that Muhammad said with some doubt.
3) That which is attributed to the Prophet Muhammad but it is weak.
4) That which is attributed to the Prophet Muhammad but it is in outright fabrication.
This was very good of James White to admit this. I have to say that my level of respect for him has honestly not been very high at all. However, after James White has said this I can now take this quote of his to his peers and colleges whom admire him and say, "Look even James White whom you say has more knowledge than you do and whom you look up to said this!"
He said that about the Hadith containing fabrication not the New Testament.
He said that about the Hadith containing fabrication not the New Testament.
Now since James has said that 'what you actually have with the New Testament' is the same as the Hadith literature I would like for James to now explain to his listeners how this effects the doctrine of inspiration.
For example since now the New Testament is simply just a collection of oral traditions that are attributed to Prophet Jesus (Esau) than does this clash with the doctrine that the 'writers' of the New Testament were inspired by the Holy Spirit to pen down revelation?
He never said that the New Testament "is simply just a collection of oral traditions that are attributed to Prophet Jesus (Esau)". It's statements like this that make me wonder if thegrandverbalizer ever read the New Testament because only four of the 27 books of the New Testament narrate the life of Jesus.
In fact is it even appropriate to speak of 'writers' of the New Testament now?
Huh?
On what basis does James determine what statements attributed to Jesus, Peter, Paul and others are true, sound, weak and fabricated?
He never said he had to. thegrandverbalixer is making the assertion that one has to.
He never said he had to. thegrandverbalixer is making the assertion that one has to.
This I tell you friends is fascinating! We are living in fascinating times! James White if your findings take you to the logical conclusion you are always welcome as a brother in Islam! :)
thegrandverbalizer's post is not the best example of logic.
thegrandverbalizer's post is not the best example of logic.
Now you will understand how we use as presupposition the basis of the Qur'an to determine what anyone who came prior to Muhammad said. After all Allah keeps perfect record of what his prophets did or did not say. You will also now understand more fully why Muslims may incline towards some statements in the New Testament and stir clear of others.
Translation: Only the parts of the New Testament that agrees with thegrandverbalizer's misunderstanding of the Bible and his understanding of Islam are correct.That mean you have to be really sure you can know if the Bible, Qur'an, or the Hadith are right or wrong. And thegrandverbalizer often gets things wrong in the Old and New Testaments.
Translation: Only the parts of the New Testament that agrees with thegrandverbalizer's misunderstanding of the Bible and his understanding of Islam are correct.That mean you have to be really sure you can know if the Bible, Qur'an, or the Hadith are right or wrong. And thegrandverbalizer often gets things wrong in the Old and New Testaments.
Very very good James!
Islam and Christianity A Common Word: Christian apologist admits New Testament contains fabrications and weak chains of narration!
