Iron Sharpens Iron Interview: Did Martin Luther Believe in the Reformed Tulip?

This was a great interview of apologist James Swan. The discussion revolves around the question did Martin Luther would agree with the Reformed "TULIP" doctrine. I really enjoyed it.  Sawn talked about Luther's book Bondage of the Will, which I also read. It is the only full work of Luthor's that I have personally read. Five hundred years ago, Luther buried much of debate of human free will.  I agreed with Swan about how he see the book. The one one thing is that i would not say that Luther was paradoxical in that book  I thought he was clear. No one can come to God on their own and God chooses who will be saved but none of us can even guess at how He does that. Luther also sad that by all rights we all deserve hell. No one is righteous on their own no matter what we do. I agree. It's the way of Jesus or no way.

It was interesting to hear someone  else's take on if Martin Luther were around today would he be a Five-Point Calvinist?  Note: TULIP is an acronym.for each of the 5 points. From the research I have done, here is my take.

"T" stands for "Total Depravity" which means that no man, woman, or child is without sin and are unable to live a life perfectly pleasing God on our own. Ig there is only one "petal" on this tulip that we can be sure Luther agreed with this would be it.

"U" stands for "Unconditional election" which means that God choose who will be saved on the basis of his will not ours. Keep in mind that the point is that without this act of God we would all be going to hell anyway. I agree with Swan. I think Luther would be all over this one too.

"L" stands for "Limited Atonement" which means that Jesus' atoning sacrifice was for the elect - those God foreknew and fore-ordained  for salvation. This is one "petal" that I myself struggle with. Most Calvinist seem to look at this one as safe-guarding us from the conclusion that Jesus died for sinner who are never redeemed.  I see their point. Dr. James White does a good job arguing this point. However we do have a scripture 1 John 2:1,2  that says:

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

I don't really know what to make of all of it yet, however Martin Luther didn't seem to embrace this one either. I agree with Sawn. I saw nothing in Bondage of the Will to lead me to conclude that Luther would agree with the big "L"  but he would not say that a person missed being in the elect because they chose not to be elect. I mean you can't elect yourself to anything. Why would salvation be different? Luther basically said that we should not try to figure out why this person gets saved and that one person gets passed over...just preach the Gospel to everyone.

"I" means "irresistible grace" it means that God saves us by his grace and no one can resist it.  I agree with this. Because Jesus said no one can snatch his chosen out of the Father's hand.  Surely we can't climb out either. John 10:27-29:

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

I could not tell if Luther agreed with this or not. So i'll just accept Swan's reasoning until i read more of Luther's work.

"P" means "perseverance of the saints" sometimes referred to "eternal security". All it means is that none of the elect are ever lost.  I agree. Philippians 1:4-7

In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me.

I also don't know what Luther thought about this because Bondage of the Will does not go into much detail on what Luther thought on this one. I think that Swan's conclusion was reasonable however.

Iron Sharpens Iron Interview: Did Martin Luther Believe in the Reformed Tulip?

THE APOLOGETIC FRONT: A Debate with a Mormon Apologist: Did God ever Sin?

Image by ilmungo via Flickr

 Here is a great resource for understanding what Mormons believe. I have heard and read in their own materials that mormons believe what Mike posted. I don't see any way that he misrepresented what they believe:

From what I know about Mormon theology, they believe that God was once a man who lived on another planet who eventually progressed to Godhood. From a Christian perspective, this brings about some serious questions and implications such as, "Did God ever Sin?" Here, a Mormon apologist is confronted with the issue:

This debate is interesting. It's frightening to me what Mormons believe. He actually admit that Mormons (the men) will become gods themselves, worshiped by their own spirit-children, and that God could have been a sinner before He became god. Scary and totally unbiblical. The Mormon further says that God made the earth from pre-existing materials. No way does it mesh with the Bible.

THE APOLOGETIC FRONT: A Debate with a Mormon Apologist: Did God ever Sin?