Saturday, March 23, 2013
FacePlant of the Day - Does 2nd Peter Copy Jude?
Well, considering that these passages are the same, it demonstrates it's [2 Peter has the same passages as Jude] more likely than not...Let us try to cut Ryan Anderson a little slack and assume that he mean that 2 Peter quotes Jude word for word but only that 2 Peter was influenced by Jude. Keep in mind that Anderson has come to the conclusion that 2 Peter was not written by the Apostle Peter based on:
2nd Peter / Jude
1:5 / 3
1:12 / 5
2:1 / 4
2:4 / 6
2:5 / 5
2:6 / 7
2:10-11 / 8-9
2:12 / 10
2:13-17 / 11-13
2:18 / 16
3:2f / 17f
3:3 / 18
3:14 / 24
3:18 / 25
Because of these two premises, 1) The Epistle of Jude post dates Peter's death and 2) 2nd Peter is dependent upon the Epistle of Jude. But again, I don't know that, it's just that both of those premises have far more support than their inverse making them more likely true than not. [quoted from his comments at this link
He has assumed that if 2 Peter was written after Jude and Jude was written after Peter's death and 2 Peter lifts its content from Jude then 2 Peter could not have been written by Peter. I completely disagree because no one can show that Jude was written after Peter's death (faceplant worthy in itself to base an argument on a premise that you can't show is relaible) and it's not true you can show that 2 Peter likely copies Jude. In order to make that argument you have to think that 2 contemporary Christians would not agree on the same things and make similar points...independently of one another. I ain't got enough faith to believe that. Let's look at the list Ryan Anderson has copied out of a book somewhere and see his premise makes sense. It makes me wonder if he ever bothered to read the passages himself.
2 Peter 1:5 / Jude 3
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; - 2 Peter 1:5 (NIV)
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. - Jude 3 (NIV)
Would Peter and Jude both want to encourage their fellow Christians? I think they would. I also don't think they are talking about the same thing. You can't contend for the faith without adding goodness and knowledge to yourself, but "contending" seems to mean more than that. When you contend for something you are struggling against opposing forces. While Peter would no disagree with this, he seems to be referring more closely to his admonition to "make your election sure" - examining yourself (see 2nd Peter 1:10) People who make such arguments seem to forget that Paul makes the same admonitions and encouragements in many of his letters.
2 Peter 1:12 vs Jude 5
12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. - 2 Peter 1:12 (NIV)
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[a] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. - Jude 1:5 (NIV)
Both Peter and Jude were writing to believers. You can't be a believer if you don't know what they are talking about.
2 Peter 2:1 vs Jude 4
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. - 2 Peter 2:1
4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[a] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. - Jude 4.
There are false prophets today just like among the people to whom Peter and Jude wrote. Of course, they would want warn their people. It's more interesting to me that this warning is also good for today.
2 Peter 2:4 vs Jude 6
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment; - 2 Peter 2:4
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. Jude 6
Ryan Anderson seems to be under the mistaken thought that the Book of Enoch was a gnostic book given that that he had also said that there is a gnostic influence here. I disagree. Beside the Book of Enoch predates all of the New Testament and Gnosticism. No way. And given that the Book of Enoch was a cultural force at that time of course Peter and Jude would refer to it. There is no reason why they would not. Their audiences would have been familiar with it.
2 Peter 2:5 vs Jude 5
5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; - 2 Peter 2:5
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[a] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe - Jude 5
Again both Jude and Peter would use the flood story to demonstrate their point - the same point in different word. They were all familiar with it. Would you expect one of them to use the TV show Lost as an example? I would not.
2 Peter 2:6 vs Jude 7
6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; - 2 Peter 2:6
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. - Jude 7
Accusing one of copying the other because they use the same story to illustrate the same point is really sloppy scholarship. If anything it shows that the authors expected their readers to be familiar with the same stories and believed the same things.
2 Peter 2:10-11 vs Jude 8-9
10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh[a] and despise authority.
Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from[b] the Lord.- 2 Peter 2:10-11
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[a]
- Jude 8-9
Again Peter's audience would have been familiar with the stories both he Jude are alluding too and both are in a Jewish context. Each knew that their audiences were familiar with Jewish scriptures. Assuming that someone writing several generations would write the same way is way too far to stretch.
2 Peter 2:12 vs Jude 10
12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. - 2 Peter 2:12
10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. - Jude 10
Sounds like both Peter and Jude are describing godless atheists for today. Why would they not the same thing about people like that? Nothing here make it likely that 2 Peter came a long time after Jude.
2 Peter 2:13-17 vs Jude 11-13
13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[a] 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer,[b] who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. - 2 Peter 2:13-17
11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. - Jude 11-13
Here Peter and Jude make the same point but makes it differently. Again no reason to think 2 Peter came way after Jude and Peter's death. Certainly Peter would have known about these examples.
2 Peter 2:18 vs Jude 16
18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. - 2 Peter 2:18
16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. - Jude 16
They both are making the same point. I really wish people like Ryan Anderson would listen to Peter and Jude.
2 Peter 3:2f vs Jude 17f
Both Peter and Jude were looking forward to Jesus' return and his final victory of sin. Why would they both not talk about it? Nothing there supporting Ryan Anderson's premises.
2 Peter 3:3 vs Jude 18
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. - 2 Peter 3:3
18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” - Jude 18
Kind of looks like Jude quoted Peter this time, not the other way around.
2 Peter 3:14 vs Jude 24
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. - 2 Peter 3:14
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— - Jude 24
Jude is making a farewell greeting praising God for who he is and what he has done for us who believe in him. Peter is admonishing us to do our part. No contradiction and two different point being made. Both are true.
2 Peter 3:18 vs Jude 25
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. - 2 Peter 3:18
25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. - Jude 25
In 2 Peter Peter ends his letter the same way Jude does. It's similar to how Paul so often ends his letters. Praising Jesus and identifying his deity. They were just on the same page and agreement. In no way does this list show that 2nd Peter wasinfluenced by or copied from Jude. In order to come to that conclusion you have to frontload yourself with the assumption that 2 Peter was not written by Peter and that Jude was written first. Faceplants all around because you can't demonstrate that either of these are true. You have to assume them first.
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