Sunday, June 17, 2012

FacePlant of the Day - Cathy Cooper: Disengenuous Atheist

Photoshop Will Be The Death Of Me
I wrote the following post responding to a post by Cathy Cooper on Debunking Christianity. The response is at: FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Christianity-- A Disingenuous Religion Based on Lies and Deception. Instead of responding in comments under her own name, she cowardly responded anonymously as if she too was a Christian. That's deceiving people as best and lying at worst. I thought that it could have been a "Christian" commenting because there are some people calling themselves "Christians" really think the hereasy she was spewing is true. I'm taking the comments that she made on the post for June 17, 2012 and responding to them here. She said she would post the same on her own blog. I hope she does and I think anyone who is interested should compare her post to what she commented on my blog.

Marcus, how sad! Why would I be a sinner to God when I have not committed any sins. I do not, nor have I ever had any dirty sexual thoughts. It is not the case that God made you a dirty sinner.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.  - 1 John 1:9-10

I never said that God never made us a sinner. The Bible does not say it.

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned —  Romans 5:12

There are a lot of other ways to sin that have nothing to do with sex.

You can choose to be sinless. Of course I am better than a adulterer, murderer, or child molester!

Where does the Bible say you can choose to be sinless? No you are not better than an adulterer, murderer, or child molester.  No one is. We are all depraved and deserving hell.

Again, Hebrews 10:26-27 makes it CLEAR that once you are saved you are to SIN NO MORE--or you go to the pit of fire.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - Hebrews 10:26-27

I'm not saying that we can afford to deliberately keep on sinning. I don't deliberately keep on sinning. But you do. The passage does not say what you said it does. And you have misrepresented it, multiple times. Seems you have some repenting to God you should be doing.

Marcus, if you are a Christian and you have been saved, then it is easy to be sinless because your sin nature has been crucified and now you are led by the holy ghost--it is not a process--you are to sin no more!

And what scripture do you use to show that you can be sinless. Cathy, you are an atheist and you seem to think that you can be sinless without God. You can't. Pelagius even argued that we didn't need the crucifixion to be saved. He was wrong. Dead wrong. If we can be sinless, why did Jesus need to come to die to be our propititiation? Pelagius denies the fundamentals of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You have brought him up multiple.

You need to get saved and stop faking and making excuses for being a sinner. Stop blaming God for for your own lack of faith and weakness! God is not forcing you to sin. God is not forcing you to have dirty bad thoughts, or what ever else you consider a sin unless you want to just make out that everything we do is a sin so you can keep sinning and claim you have too because Jesus needs you to--what a sad and monstrous conception you have of God and Jesus!!

Who said that God is forcing anyone to have dirty thoughts? God is not forcing anyone to sin.  Jesus does not need us to do anything. Where are you getting such stupid theology?

12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. - James 1:12-14

Marcus take responsibility for your own sins and quit blaming God.

Where have I blamed God? We deserve hell. That's not God's fault. You can't repent for your sin, without taking responsibility for them. But you deny that you sin. You seem to know a lot about avoiding responsibility.

Do you think that you can keep sinning because you sinned in the past and for God and Jesus that is ok because you were not perfect in the past--NO--that is not an excuse not to be perfect now, and by perfect I mean sinless.

No I don't think we should keep sinning. You keep misrepresenting Christian Theology. Do you think that that's okay? I don't. You might think that "perfect" equals sinless but that is not what the Greek word says in the passages I pointed out.

For example, lets say you start a new job and at first you make many mistakes. Do you think an employer will think that it is a good excuse for you to keep making the same mistakes years later because, after all you, were not perfect in the beginning--NO! It would not be acceptable and it is not acceptable to God or Jesus for you to keep sinning. Oh yea, I forgot, according to you, "To God we are all sinners."--and, Jesus needs you to keep sinning and you don't won't to let God and Jesus down--right Marcus!

@ Marcus, I meant to say:
Oh yea, I forgot, according to you, "To God we are all sinners."--and, Jesus needs you to keep sinning and you don't WANT to let God and Jesus down--right Marcus!

I never said that it's okay to keep sinning. Jesus does not need us for anything. No, I don't want to let Jesus down. I owe him too much. A Christian would not keep making the same mistakes. We will grow beyond our current state and stop sinning. We will grow and be more like Jesus.

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. - Romans 8:28-29

The point of my Christian life is to be sinless like Jesus. As I learn more about God, I learn more about just how much sin God has saved me from.
@ Marcus--Yeah Marcus, it's me, and so are all of the "anonymous" comments above me. And thank you for illustrating my point. I will be posting this discussion on my blog post, A is for Atheist and Debunking Christianity to illustrate the absurdity of your way of thinking.

The truly absurd thing is that you don't know anything about God. You even deny that he exists and then pretend you can tell anyone what Christians believe.
The Christian philosopher Pelagius would be rolling over in his grave reading your post and comments, as he believed your way of thinking leads to "moral laxity." I bet you probably don't even know who Pelagius was though....

I know about Pelagius. He was wrong. St. Augustine was right. And Augustine shredded his arguments. Calling Pelagius a "Christian" is like calling David Koresh a "Christian" - not even close. Again Pelagius denied the need for Jesus' atonement as propititiation for sin. Of course he would disagree with me. He disagreed with the whole of the New Testasment - denying the whole point of it. I'm in good company referring to him as a heretic.