Thursday, June 9, 2011

Answering Muslims: Nepali Women Victimized in Muslim Countries

David Wood posted news that Nepali Women are constantly being victimized when they go to Muslim countries and some are never heard from again. I don't know what is more tragic, the story or following comment David Wood also posted.


Inevitable comment from GreekAsianPanda: "But what does the oppression of unbelievers, the sexual abuse of slaves, and the abuse of women have to do with Islam? Just because Islam promotes the oppression of unbelievers (Qur'an 9:29), the sexual abuse of slaves (Qur'an 4:24), and the abuse of women (Qur'an 4:34) doesn't mean that there's any connection between Islam and the behavior of Muslims across the Muslim world."
Easy...it has everything to do with Islam!

Answering Muslims: Nepali Women Victimized iDavid n Muslim Countries
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THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: Another Great Republican Idea: Let's Pay Women On Welfare To Get Their Tubes Tied

I'm late on this because I was so angry on this that  I decided to hold off commenting on it. I mean, I could not believe this, Paying poor people to voluntarily sterilize themselves just is wrong. I don't know what is worse: suggesting it or even thinking it a moral position to have. It says that people who do not have a lot of money don't deserve to have children It also shows disdain for reproductive rights and ability - as if such a gift (that not everyone has) can have a monetary value placed on it. Eugenics is still with us, folks.

THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: Another Great Republican Idea: Let's Pay Women On Welfare To Get Their Tubes Tied
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The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven

John Loftus posted the following article by Dr. Richard Carrier on his blog on May 18th, 2011. I decided to annotate the article. My comments will be in red. For a philosopher, Carrier makes some really untenable presuppositions.

The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven
The following argument could be taken as tongue-in-cheek, if it didn't seem so evidently true. At any rate, to escape the logic of it requires theists to commit to abandoning several of their cherished assumptions about God or Heaven. And no matter what, it presents a successful rebuttal to any form of Pascal's Wager, by demonstrating that unbelief might still be the safest bet after all (since we do not know whose assumptions are correct, and we therefore cannot exclude the assumptions on which this argument is based).

Bold claims about what Carrier is going to accomplish with is arguments. Can he do it?

Argument 1: Who Goes to Heaven?
It is a common belief that only the morally good should populate heaven, and this is a reasonable belief, widely defended by theists of many varieties. Suppose there is a god who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth. For all others are untrustworthy, being cognitively or morally inferior, or both. They will also be less likely ever to discover and commit to true beliefs about right and wrong. That is, if they have a significant and trustworthy concern for doing right and avoiding wrong, it follows necessarily that they must have a significant and trustworthy concern for knowing right and wrong. Since this knowledge requires knowledge about many fundamental facts of the universe (such as whether there is a god), it follows necessarily that such people must have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about such things are probably correct. Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven--unless god wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy.

Dr Carrier may believe that it's reasonable to assume that only the morally good should populate heaven, but that isn't what the Bible tells us. There is no one who is good.


6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
   and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
   and like the wind our sins sweep us away.- Isaiah 64:6

And that was written about theists! How much more worse off are unbelievers!? Hell is default. It is what we deserve without God's grace and mercy - it is an undeserved and unearned gift..

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.- Romans 3:21-26
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.- Ephesians 2:8-10


Regardless of whether or not you think the Bile is true or not, you can't deny that it refutes the basis of Carrier's first argument. Strike one.

But only two groups fit this description: intellectually committed but critical theists, and intellectually committed but critical nontheists (which means both atheists and agnostics, though more specifically secular humanists, in the most basic sense). Both groups have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about god (for example) are probably correct, so that their beliefs about right and wrong will probably be correct. No other groups can claim this. If anyone is sincerely interested in doing right and wrong, they must be sincerely interested in whether certain claims are true, including "God exists," and must treat this matter with as much responsibility and concern as any other moral question. And the only two kinds of people who do this are those theists and nontheists who devote their lives to examining the facts and determining whether they are right.

I have to give Carrier a little credit here because the Bible tells us to test and question and search for truth.

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil. - 1 Thessalonians 5:20-22

But given the above presuppositions, I'd have to ask how concerned Carrier is with finding truth because he ignored what the Bible says about how people are saved. At the same time, it's not by intellectualism that theses things are discerned.

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. - 1 Corinthians 1:26-29



Argument 2: Why This World?
It is a common belief that certain mysteries, like unexplained evils in the world and god's silence, are to be explained as a test, and this is a reasonable belief, widely defended by theists of many varieties. After all, if no test were needed, then God could and would, out of his compassion and perfect efficiency, simply select candidates at birth and dispense with any actual life in this world, since God would immediately know their merits.

Agreed some people think this way, but this isn't what the Bible teaches. God's hiddeness and unexplained evils are not tests to see who is moral enough to go to heaven.

Free will cannot negate this conclusion, since if God cannot know us because we might freely reverse ourselves, then God cannot fill heaven with trustworthy people: for anyone in heaven may through an unexpected act of free will become or do evil. And given an eternity, it is probable that most of the population of heaven will do something evil. After all, if free will prevents him, then God cannot predict who will or won't do evil and thus he can never select those who will be forever good from those who will not, except by some inductive test.

No where does the Bible say human beings have free will especially how Carrier defines it. God knows what we will do in any and all situations. He is critiquing "Open Theism" and most Christians are not Open theists! The Bible tells us a lot about how we come into knowledge of God..

 24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
 29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17: 24-31
We are all, each one of us, put in the most optimal place, time, and circumstances for us to best find God.  

Since those who will be forever good must naturally be rare in comparison to the set of all those people appearing to be good up to their deaths, it follows that, lacking a reliable inductive test, most of the population of heaven will not be genuinely good. It follows that a god who wanted better results would probably distinguish the genuinely good, and thus deserving, from the untrustworthy and undeserving, by subjecting all candidates to a reliable test, and it would be reasonable to conclude that this world only exists for such a purpose.

If God only wanted deserving people in heaven, then not one of us would ever go. God does not look for righteousness in us, he imputes it to us. Strike two.


Argument 3: No God or Evil God
If presented with strong evidence that a god must either be evil or not exist, a genuinely good person will not believe in such a god, or if believing, will not give assent to such a god (as by worship or other assertions of approval, since the good do not approve of evil). Most theists do not deny this, but instead deny that the evidence is strong. But it seems irrefutable that there is strong evidence that a god must either be evil or not exist.

The Bible does not tell us that only genuinely good people believe in a good God.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
   Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.- James 2:18-22

If demons know it, and they are evil, then of course evil people can recognize the fact of God's existence.


For example, in the bible Abraham discards humanity and morality upon God's command to kill his son Isaac, and God rewards him for placing loyalty above morality. That is probably evil--a good god would expect Abraham to forego fear and loyalty and place compassion first and refuse to commit an evil act, and would reward him for that, not for compliance. Likewise, God deliberately inflicts unconscionable wrongs upon Job and his family merely to win a debate with Satan. That is probably evil--no good god would do such harm for so petty a reason, much less prefer human suffering to the cajoling of a mere angel. And then God justifies these wrongs to Job by claiming to be able to do whatever he wants, in effect saying that he is beyond morality. That is probably evil--a good god would never claim to be beyond good and evil. And so it goes for all the genocidal slaughter and barbaric laws commanded by God in the bible. Then there are all the natural evils in the world (like diseases and earthquakes) and all the unchecked human evils (i.e. god makes no attempt to catch criminals or stop heinous crimes, etc.). Only an evil god would probably allow such things.

Why did Abraham go along with the idea of sacrificing Isaac? Abraham knew that the promises of God was contingent on Isaac living, so he obeyed God knowing that God was going to work it out. It was not an issue of evil; or good. The issue was "Can I trust God to keep his promises?" It was for this that Abraham was called "righteous".

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death. - Hebrews 11:17-19

As for Job, there was a reason why Job went through what he went through. Job grew closer to God.

1 Then Job replied to the LORD:
 2 “I know that you can do all things;
   no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
   Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
   things too wonderful for me to know.
 4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
   I will question you,
   and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
   but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
   and repent in dust and ashes.” - Job 42:1-6
Strike Three.
Argument 4: The Test
Of the two groups comprising the only viable candidates for heaven, only nontheists recognize or admit that this evidence strongly implies that God must be evil or not exist. Therefore, only nontheists answer the test as predicted for morally good persons. That is, a morally good person will be intellectually and critically responsible about having true beliefs, and will place this commitment to moral good above all other concerns, especially those that can corrupt or compromise moral goodness, like faith or loyalty. So those who are genuinely worthy of heaven will very probably become nontheists, since their inquiry will be responsible and therefore complete, and will place moral concerns above all others. They will then encounter the undeniable facts of all these unexplained evils (in the bible and in the world) and conclude that God must probably be evil or nonexistent.

Again there is no evidence that God is evil or does not exits. Without God, how do you even know what "evil" is? How do you know how "good" you are?

In other words, to accept such evils without being given a justification (as is entailed by god's silence) indicates an insufficient concern for having true beliefs. But to have the courage to maintain unbelief in the face of threats of hell or destruction, as well as numerous forms of social pressure and other hostile factors, is exactly the behavior a god would expect from the genuinely good, rather than capitulation to the will of an evil being, or naive and unjustified trust that an apparently evil being is really good--those are not behaviors of the genuinely good.

Actually Carrier's position is not "courage to maintain unbelief in the face of threats of hell or destruction, as well as numerous forms of social pressure and other hostile factors, is exactly the behavior a god would expect from the genuinely good". It is capitulation to one's self.  It is turning your back on the one who made you and love you.  This is not genuinely "good" but it is "stupid".

Therefore only intellectually committed but critical nontheists are genuinely good and will go to heaven. Therefore, if a god exists, his silence and allowance of evil (in the world and the bible) are explained and justified by his plan to discover the only sorts of people who deserve to populate heaven: sincere nontheists. And this makes perfect sense of many mysteries, thus explaining what theists struggle to explain themselves.

Strike four.  The Bible is proof that God is not silent. God does not tempt anyone for evil nor does evil. So He does not test us the way Carrier is suggesting. 
  13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.- James 1:13-14
  • God's hiddenness is necessary on this account, since his presence would inspire people to behave as if good out of fear or selfish interests, not out of courage or compassion or a sense of personal integrity.
Without God you have no true courage, compassion, or personal integrity.  We are sinners deserving of hell - eternal separation from a holy God.

  • A false, evil image of God in the bible is necessary in order to test whether the reader will place morality or faith first, so this tests moral courage in the face of assertions, threats and promises of reward. It also tests cognitive trustworthiness, since it is wrong to trust what someone merely wrote, over scientifically established truths and the direct evidence of reason and the senses.
It's about trusting God or our  flawed  understanding, reason and senses.
  • Natural evils and unchecked human evils are also necessary on this account, since only in such a way can a god "demonstrate" that no moral power is behind the universe, that there is no custodian, and by that means lead a rational, compassionate observer to conclude there is no god. If the universe were well-ordered, with inherent moral enforcement and the containment or restriction of evils, observers would conclude there is a god and thus, again, might act as if good out of fear or hope of reward.
Just because things aren't meted out the way you think they should be and things happen you cannot explain does not mean that God is not running things. If God eradicated all evil now, he would have to destroy all of us. In stead He decided to save some of us because Her wanted to.

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 1920 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.- Romans 8:18-25
    The only way to truly test human beings is to see if we will become nontheists after serious and sincere inquiry into these matters: to see if we have the courage and fortitude to choose morality over faith or loyalty, and be good without fear or hope of divine reward. No other test will ensure a result of the genuinely good being self-selected into a predictable belief-state that can be observed in secret by god.

    Carrier failed to show that the test for being good enough to go to heaven  is contingent on choosing morality over faith. The Bible does not say that.  Carrier could deny that the Bible is true, but he based his whole argument on what Christians believe. Therefore the Bible is relevant.  It's not about being genuinely good. We are morally good and live holy lives through God's grace.

    Conclusion
    Since this easily and comprehensively explains all the unexplainable problems of god (like divine hiddenness and apparent evil), while other theologies do not (or at least nowhere so well), it follows that this analysis is probably a better explanation of all the available evidence than any contrary theology. Since this conclusion contradicts the conclusion of every form of Pascal's Wager, it follows that Pascal's Wager cannot assure anyone of God's existence or that belief in God will be the best bet.

    It does not explain theodicy or divine hiddeness at all. If you start from the Christian viewpoint, as Carrier does, then you have to agree that God has revealed Himself to humanity. .Unbelief is not a sure bet.in the slightest because if there is a  God holding us accountable for what we do,  not one of us can meet that standard. Only one worldview, Christianity, offers a way for dealing with your sin which must be dealt with. Sorry, but Pascal's Wager is still on the table.

    The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven
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    Debunking Christianity: Sam Harris On the Brain Vs. the Mind

    John Loftus posted the following excerpt:








    This was from a two-on-two debate with Dr. Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens on one side and Rabbis David Wolpe and Bradley Artson Shavit on the topic of what we do and do not know about the afterlife. The full debate can be found at:











    I'm not impressed by Dr Sam Harris' rhetoric at all. His basic argument is that there may be conscious life after death but it can't possibly like anything religious texts say and perhaps some time in the future science will  be able to confirm or deny an after life. Christopher Hitchens denied the possibility of life after death completely and instead bemoaned the fact some unscrupulous people use the fear of death to control others cloaked in religion - forgetting that the Bible condemns such action.The Bible refers to them as "wolves in sheep's clothing.

    As for the Rabbis, I was really disappointed. The only thing they seemed to disagree with the Atheists about is that religious metaphors of an after life are not harmful. They failed to defend the validity of our own scriptures and stand for the sovereignty of God. Instead they seemed way more secularized and often agreed with the atheists.Becuase they failed tto stand for God, Hitchens and Harris won this one hand down.



    Debunking Christianity: Sam Harris On the Brain Vs. the Mind

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    Answering Muslims: Speaker's Corner: Women in Islam

    Jay David Wood has posted a video of Jay Smith challenging Muslims at Speaker's Corner in London. Smith dialogues about women in Islam.





    This was interesting open-air preaching and dialogue at its best. I'd like to know what is Muslim response to this. I have not heard a good response.

    Answering Muslims: Speaker's Corner: Women in Islam
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    Responding to Used Tampons ~ ExChristian.Net

    I found out about a particular article by one who goes by the name eveningmeadows ~ . It is interesting because from it we can learn a lot about how unbelievers really look at particular Bible verses. My annotations are in red.

    Years ago when I was still at church, the pastor was thinking of adding a big addition. No one knew he was thinking about this at the time. He began grooming young couples in the church to take on leadership roles. One Easter, one of the young men was teaching Sunday morning bible study before Easter.

    eveningmeadows ~ does not realize how much of a blessing it is to have a pastor who wants to groom young people to take on leadership roles! Not all churches do that, but they should!

    A few things brought this story to mind. One was a comment by some of the posters on this site that the writers of the bible seemed to be preoccupied with women’s biological functions. Then Easter came along, and I remembered this guy and his Sunday school class.

    He did the usual boring study on the easter story, how jesus died on the cross, how he was nailed and suffered for our sins. He brought up the bible verse, Isaiah 64:6, that our righteous acts are like filthy rags. He went on to explain that “filthy rags” were menstrual rags that women used for their monthly periods. I had never heard that before, and it stayed in my mind.


    6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
    and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
    we all shrivel up like a leaf,
    and like the wind our sins sweep us away. -Isaiah 64:6


    Two things. First, if this person thinks that Jesus' work on the Cross is boring, it makes me wonder what this person thought about that when they were in church? Also makes me wonder if they understood what sin is and what Jesus really did for us. Second, I hadn't always known about the cultural context of the passage, but I have known about it for about 15 years. And what this little bit of information drives home just how little of our selves are responsible for the good that we do manage to do. It's a striking and jarring image and I too immediately thought of a used Tampon.

    I, of course, have grown up where our “feminine hygiene products”, are discreetly packaged in nice pink or blue boxes. Some packaging is more snappy than others, but it’s all made to be very low key so as not to draw attention to the real purpose of what’s in the box. They’re arranged by an absorbency rating, by plastic for comfort, or cardboard applicators for those with a green streak. One should be able to quickly run up and grab what you want without drawing too much attention to oneself while in the feminine hygiene isle. The only complicated aspect of the whole thing is whether to go generic or name brand, the difference being cost.

    Age of wonders, eh?

    Back to the story. Around Easter, this bible study came to mind, and as I have a lot of empty time driving the kids around, I started to dwell on this “filthy rags” aspect of the whole study. I had heard this verse forever, and had even used it as a witnessing tool to explain how sinful we are by nature. But, I finally put the filthy rags part together with the feminine hygiene part. Was god actually saying that our righteous acts are nothing more to him than used tampons?!

    Yup, that is exactly what I think the verse is saying. We are really that bad. We are really that far off from where we are supposed to be. OF course it's not talking about our ontological value to God just the way we live our lives.

    You can imagine my shock and dismay at my discovery after being a bornagainer for twenty years, and out of the church for almost ten. Why had I never put this together before?

    I'm not sure. But I am amazed at how a mind controlled by the nature Isaiah is describing processes this information. You can't become unborn again no more than a baby's natural birth can be undone.

    God sees our righteous deeds before salvation as used tampons. Why don’t we have a problem with this kind of comparison in the bible? If we were to hear that our kids were told by their teacher that all their efforts to get a decent grade in their class, were nothing but dirty tampons to this teacher, we would be down at the school in an instant talking to this teacher and the principal. If we were being reviewed at work for a pay raise, and we were told that our efforts to do our job to the best of our ability were nothing but dirty tampons, we would be very upset. If others heard that our spouse was calling us dirty tampons, we would consider that verbal abuse. And we would never use that description when talking in polite company. And yet, we hear this again and again in church, over and over throughout the years, and never really think about what the teachings in the bible are really telling us. We are all nothing more than dirty tampons. Something disgusting, something of no worth. Just something headed to the garbage. The verse has been sanitized so the original meaning isn’t clear to us anymore. We just read it over, and think of course we’re sinners, and don’t even blink.

    eveningmeadows ~ used to be in the reformed church so I am confused by the objection being raised. It's a given in the Reformed tradition that everyone is going to hell by default. If God does nothing to change your heart, hell is your destination - yup, Gehenna. It's not abusive. Look at where the mind goes and misses the conclusion that the Bible draws. Although our good acts are a stench in the nostrils of God, God still condescends in the person of Jesus Christ to left those who put their faith in Him out of that garbage heap and in His Mercy and Grace and out of Love bestows us gifts that we do not deserve. Although we are THAT bad, God is THAT good. I'm not sure if I would use the blunt language such as "On your best day, your righteousness is worth no more than a used tampon." over the pulpit because there are much less crude ways of saying it.

    I read this now and think how could I have allowed myself to be verbally bashed again and again, told what a horrible person I was, and just shrug it off as biblical truth? It’s the constant year in and year out brainwashing that allows us to read verses like this and read about abuse towards women and children and never think about it or question it. We’re horrible, retched [wretched] sinners, deserving of never ending hell fire simply because we don’t follow a certain belief system that claims it has “the truth”. It’s okay to look at others and their efforts to be decent people and see their efforts as used tampons. If we follow this belief system, we, of course, are better than all those people.

    I think that is why the "used tampon" image is so useful because it catches one attention and can't just be brushed aside. The Bible does describe abuse against women and children but it never tells us that you are righteous because you abuse women and children. If the good you do equates to a used tampon, what do you think of the value of the bad you do? The verse eveningmeadows ~ is pretty clear. It's not just talking about some of us. It refers to all of us...even those who are born-again believers. That is why Jesus had to come and die. He is the only one worthy enough to pay for our sins. None of us can do enough good to repay the debt our sin demands.

    I’m sure that there are other interpretations to this verse. I really don’t care, that’s not my point. It’s the idea that we can become so numb to the abuses in the bible, that we just gloss over the whole thing. In order to keep believing the story so we can be saved from never ending hell fire, we have to overlook many horrors in the bible. We have to shut our brains off, and never question or say that just doesn’t seem right.

    I think eveningmeadows ~ has interpreted the verse rightly, but misses some of the conclusions that must follow. There is no need to turn off your brain or question if this is true. Let's try that for a minute. Look at your own life. Can anyone of us say that we have never lied or even thought about lying. Have we ever failed to do what we knew was right? Have we ever failed to be kind to another person when it was in our power to do so. Okay, if you say you are without sin, you are lying and you know you are lying. If you ever disobeyed your parent(s) or speeded while you are driving you have failed to meet the standard that the Bible says - regardless of if you think the Bible is the word of God or not.

    After all these years, I’m still shocked by what I simply overlooked as truth in the bible.

    Therefore, if you know you have transgressed the law and it doesn't really matter if you think there is a God to hold you accountable or not because what you have to answer is "Should you get a way with the wrong you have done?" You know you have made mistakes. You know you have done wrong. You have hurt people. Should you get away with them? People have hurt you. Should they get away with it? Some of this has happened despite the best of intentions. Should you get off? Deep down we know that if we want others to pay for harming us, we can't expect to not pay for hurting others ourselves. So what are you going to do? Without Jesus, what propitiation can you possible hope to offer to satisfy your debt to your creator? This is a truth that eveningmeadows ~ has obviously overlooked and considering that on our best day our good works count no more than a used tampon, its a dangerous truth to overlook.

    Used Tampons ~ ExChristian.Net
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    Dr Michael Brown interviews Michael Licona on the Resurrection of Jesus

    Dr Michael Licona was interviewed by Dr Michael Brown on his radio show about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    line_of_fire_06_07_11.mp3 (audio/mpeg Object)
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    Audio: Interview with Dr. William Lane Craig « Thoughtful Christianity

    Brian Auten tweeted the following link to an interview of Dr William Lane Craig.

    The interview was held by RTB’s resident scholars Hugh Ross, Dave Rogstad, Jeff Zweerink, and Ken Samples and covered various topics including Craig’s article “God is Not Dead Yet” (featured in Christianity Today), Craig’s book “Reasonable Faith“, as well as Craig’s views on cosmology, the argument from reason, Molinism, naturalism, postmodernism, Einstein, and more.


    Follow the link below to listen to the interview

    Audio: Interview with Dr. William Lane Craig « Thoughtful Christianity
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    THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: WikiLeaks Cable: Obama Admin. Pressured Haiti Not to Raise Minimum Wage

    We can't forget that there is still much suffering going on in Haiti because of the earthquake that was suffered in January 2010. This particular post is really interesting. Not only is there the interview from someone who was there and continue to work on Haiti's behalf, but it asks fundamental questions about about the aid that has been sent already. Apparently very little of it is actually helping people.




    This breakdown of how the money is being divided raises some questions for me:

    Each American dollar roughly breaks down like this: 42 cents for disaster assistance, 33 cents for U.S. military aid, nine cents for food, nine cents to transport the food, five cents for paying Haitian survivors for recovery efforts, just less than one cent to the Haitian government, and about half a cent to the Dominican Republic

    Why is the Dominican Republic getting any of it?

    THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: WikiLeaks Cable: Obama Admin. Pressured Haiti Not to Raise Minimum Wage
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    Absurdity of Christianity


    I keep finding that many atheists miss it on Christianity. Often when they try to articulate what they object to in the Bible, they talk about a god that is not in the Bible.  If their god was who we worship as Christian I'd reject that god too. But that isn't the God described and active in Scripture or my life. Let's take the above comic strip for an example. The following is said about God and at what the Bible says.

    1. Jesus and God the Father are conflated into a single person.

    Scripture makes it clear that Jesus is distinct from the Father


    16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.” - John 8:16-18
     

    2. Jesus died to change a law that He himself made.

    Jesus died to satisfy the law not change it. He came to be our substitute so we don't have to die for our sins.

    1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
     2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.- 1 John 2:1-2
     1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 23 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.- Hebrews 12:1-3 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


    3. God made Himself

    Who said that God came into existence? He was, is, and is to come - eternal.

    The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. - Revelations 22:17


    But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath. - Jeremiah 10:10


    18 For this is what the LORD says—
    he who created the heavens,
       he is God;
    he who fashioned and made the earth,
       he founded it;
    he did not create it to be empty,
       but formed it to be inhabited—
    he says:
    “I am the LORD,
       and there is no other.
    19 I have not spoken in secret,
       from somewhere in a land of darkness;
    I have not said to Jacob’s descendants,
       ‘Seek me in vain.’
    I, the LORD, speak the truth;
       I declare what is right. - Iaiaah 45:18,19

    4. "Goodness" means that God would not send anyone to Hell.

    What about Justice? "Love" and "Kindness" are only part of who God is. There is also Justice. Sin must be atoned for. Because of his character, the scales have to be balanced. Our sin are so horrible that it can only be balanced by our paying for them or God himself paying for them in the person of Jesus Christ. Take your pick. I'm not righteous enough to stand before the Holy God on my own. If you trust Jesus, God will declare you not guilty because Jesus already paid your tab. You can't pay it.

    Recent image by tommy_n_chucky on Photobucket
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    FacePalm of the Day #88 - Debunking Christianity: Quote of the Day, by Steven Bentley

    John Loftus posted the following  quote from Steven Bentley, This one gets a FacePalm because it gets so much wrong.

    John, your former friend Bill has his been convinced that he has in his possession a book of truths backed and endorsed by the creator god of the universe, to Bill, it's contents cannot be defeated, if you counter his truths, this proves to him that he is right and you are wrong, it has a built-in reverse psychology protection, if you disagree with his beliefs and his book of truths, then you're an adversary to his truths, therefore to him, you are an evil person and of a reprobate mind looking out only to destroy his faith and deceiving him to join you and Satan in the lake of fire at the judgment seat of Christ. Therefore to Bill, you're only out to deceive him and destroy his truth that he has been especially elected to receive through gods calling via the holy spirit. Link.
    One frustrating thing about the "choir" making up the readership of  Debunking Christianity. They attack straw men - things that the Bible does not teach.

    12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.- Ephesians 6:12

    It's not about my truth or his truth, it's about the truth.Atheists are not the enemy.


    15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,- 1 Peter 3:15

    Debunking Christianity: Quote of the Day, by Steven Bentley
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