Islam and Christianity A Common Word: My thoughts on the Ergun Caner James White dispute

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The blogger from Islam and Christianity A Common Word has posted a summary response to the Caner/White debate playing out over the Internet. I just want to comment on about half the post. I don't know enough about Ergun Caner to comment on his character or ministry. However I have been reading and watching Dr. James R White for almost 6 years. Although the blogger has no respect for Caner because he believes Caner to be dishonest, the blogger almost seems to go out of his way to show how White can't be trusted. I respectfully disagree. My comments will be italicized.

Now on to James White. James White though not a flat liar and full of deciet like Ergun Caner nonetheless has some serious issues to contend with. For example I couldn't help but notice a theological paradox that James White get's himself involved in when advising Ergun Caner in the following way,

"Dr. Caner, when speaking about the sacrifice of Christ, one can trust the Spirit to make the words alive in the hearts of God's elect. You don't need to make up fake debates just to wow an audience. "

Hmmm this is interesting. If the Spirit is what makes words alive in the hearts of God's elect what theological implications does this hold for James White? For example would it not be impossible for James White to ever admit to a wrong doing? I think anyone who debates James White has to seriously look into this very heavy Calvinist presupposition. Since they are sealed in Christ as many of the hardshells believed to be in pre regeneration is it possible for them to ever err? 

I have to say that I believe the blogger's viewpoint is being shaped by the Islamic view that all prophets are sinless while they are ministering and can't make mistakes. As a Christian, I know what it's like to experience the Holy Spirit at work in my own heart and have seen the work of the Spirit in others. I also realize that this does not make me perfect of sinless. I'm working on myself to get rid of sin although I am justified because of Christ. God sees me and judges me perfect although it is not yet actualized. Can the blogger say the same? Of course it's possible for White or I to error and still be saved. We just aren't supposed to make it a practice to sin on purpose. We are supposed to live holy on purpose!

The reason I say this is because James White high on himself in pointing out Ergun Caner's mistakes doesn't want you to see this video.

I don't get that from White. He's confident in the truth God has given him and is seeking more truth. He is also humble about his own worth. He's a freakin' Calvinist! Anyone remember the "T" in "TULIP" stands for "Total Depravity"? As far as White's concern that he is as worthless as the rest of us without Jesus. Without Jesus we are dead in sin and bound lock, stock, and barrel for hell because that is what we deserve! I've never heard White back down from an accusation. If you really have something why don't you send him the video below and call him on his webcast and give him to respond.

Notice the quote at 2:23 is not from the book he claimed it to come from? Than when we actually find the source it goes back to another source and another.... and... so forth. In fact in this debate James White did a very horrible job of trying to prove why the scriptures were inspired. The Christians felt it was a victory. Allah willing I will post this debate in the near future with commentary on why I felt Shabir Ally devastated James in this debate. The least of which is that James uses circular reasoning namely the sciptures are inspired because they say so. This also doesn't clarify for us which of those scriptures are inspired and which are not.

I'll be waiting for this post. Please be sure to document which debate it is, the date, and the location. 

The point being though is that James made an error here. He has not attempted to rectify this he has simply had some of those who dote on him respond by saying well is the source correct or not? Shabir Ally responded to it in the debate. So James White has still yet to make the correction. Now if the Holy Spirit inspires one what to say and James White is always abiding by the Holy Spirit and has always been pre-regenerated in Christ Jesus this has serious implications for anyone debating him.

I've never heard a Christian use the term "pre-regenerated". I hope that the blogger will provide a link to a post where he will explain what he means. I don't buy Ally's explanation because he didn't really explain why he knew the story was wrong. Also by asserting that White said he quoted a source that he says he did not quote is calling him a liar. I've never heard White respond to it. The blogger seems desperate to discredit James White. If the blogger will not call in to White's webcast, I will.

Obviously the man can never be wrong! James White doesn't believe that 'We' come to the truth on any matters. When he says 'We' this should be understood as 'those of you who don't yet believe as I do'. This is another reason why James White believes he doesn't have to prove the Trinity because it's revealed by the Holy Spirit, he simply has to defend it.

I have heard James White on many occasions admit to being fallible and to not being perfect on all matters! I think the blogger is not being fair to the man at all. I hear most Muslim apologists try to argue that the Bible does not teach the Trinity not that the Trinity can't be proven. Agreed that the Trinity is a revelation but its a revelation based on scripture that Muhammad himself said that you, as Muslim, should believe. If it wasn't in the scripture, White would abandon it. So would I. You have written that Allah is not omnipresent because he completely transcends space-time -  existing completely out of space and time. How would you know such a being without revelation? How do you prove that the God of the Qur'an exist?

He doesn't have to give reasons how the Bible came to be collected in the manner it is today, and what makes it inspired he simply believes. This is all fair and well, and James does come off as looking polished and forceful in debates. Yet, when you look a little closer at his position and arguments he has to be one of the worst Christian apologist of all time.

I totally disagree. Did you read the King James Only Controversy? He has written a whole book on the transmission of th Bible and why we know it is inspired and why we can be sure we know what it says.

Let's look at the facts:

1) James White has never proven the Trinity to be true, that's not his theological position. He simply defends the doctrine of the Trinity.

 How does the blogger prove that Allah wants Muslims to pray 5 times a day facing Mecca?

2) James White has never shown us who chose the New Testament canon and how it came to be regarded as scripture (doing so ventures into Catholic territory) something James wishes to avoid at all cost.

Again, read the King James Only Controversy. I think the blogger does not know much about White. If he did he would know that White has debated many a Catholic theologian/priests/apologists. He wrote a whole book - The Roman Catholic Controversy! What does the blogger mean White does not want to mix it up with Catholics. He just debated Roman Catholic apologist Tim Staples on Purgatory about 4 weeks ago!!!

3) James White never gives reasons why the Bible is inspired (God-breathed) for example scientific miracles, prophecy fufilment or anything that can be falsified proved and disproven. He simply makes the statement that the New Testament gives some vague reference to inspiration and for him that alone is sufficient.

Please go read the KJV Only Controversy and I think the Blogger should read and listen to more of White's work.

4) James White can never honestly look out at an audience and say 'God loves you'. If he did say it he should clarify by asserting that God loves everyone in that audience. His theological position cannot allow him to say this.

Can the blogger look at an audience and say "Allah love you" as in everyone in the audience?  No? Because it's more complicated than that? I'll take that answer but White would have to give the blogger the same answer.

Conclusion:

Ergun Caner's bad point (liar , charlatan, and Christian con man)

Ergun Caner's plus point (salesman, entertainer, mic skills, theologically Arminian)

Kind of scary that the blogger considers Caner's arminianism a plus given how Islam has it's own version of predestination.

James White's bad point ( inconsistency , poor exegesis, inability to make the Bible credible, theologically Calvinist)

James White's plus point (his crafty style of debating which doesnt' really involve meaningful exchange, just trying his best to shift the burden of proof on his opponent without having to defend anything himself) , His emphasis is not on winning souls it's upon debates and it can't be do his theological position as a Calvanist.

As much street preaching White has done....all the world-travel...all the books....all the study....to be said that he doesn't care about winning souls seems completely dishonest. I've never seen Dr. White shy away from explaining why the truth is on his side. The blogger not only shows a misunderstanding of the Trinity but of Calvinism also.

Islam and Christianity A Common Word: My thoughts on the Ergun Caner James White dispute