Quote of the Day: John MacArthur

 

Early Christians Did Worship Jesus as God

Archaeologists in Israel have uncovered a significant discovery that sheds light on early Christian beliefs in Jesus's divinity. This finding, considered the greatest Christian discovery since the Dead Sea Scrolls, involves a large mosaic depicting Jesus with the loaves and fishes, dating back over a century before the Council of Nicaea. The mosaic indicates that early Christians worshiped Jesus as God long before it was legally recognized by the Roman Empire. The discovery supports scriptural evidence, such as Thomas referring to Jesus as "My Lord and my God," and underscores the theological belief that Jesus's divine nature was essential for his sacrifice to be effective for humanity's salvation.

Answering Muslims: James White vs. Abdullah Kunde: "Can God Become a Man?"

The video for the debate on the incarnation between James White and Abdullah Kunde is now posted!!!




Answering Muslims: James White vs. Abdullah Kunde: "Can God Become a Man?"

Further Responses to "Christian" Scholar Laurence Brown by Dr James White

Last week, Dr James White began reviewing a discussion by Laurence Brown on the Islamic Apologetic' show, The Deen Show. Here is the show that Dr White is responding to.






Dr Brown is arguing that Jesus is not God and that there is no Trinity. He's wrong. You can hear the first part of the response here and the second part over here. Here is the third part of the response at this link.

Tuesday on the Dividing Line: Further Responses to "Christian" Scholar Laurence Brown

Debunking Christianity: A Quick View to the Evolution of the Trinity

I saw multiple FacePalm-worthy post on Debunking Christianity today. I decided that this one was bad but not the worst so it's not gonna get a FacePalm. TGBaker keeps churning out material that makes me doubt if he ever even picked up a Bible. So here we go again.

The idea of trinity was not found in the original manuscripts of the New Testament. The pronouns that refer to the holy spirit were neuter meaning "it" not "He." By the fourth century copies of the Greek started showing some of the pronouns changes from 'it" to the masculine, He. (such as Ephesians 1:14). Even in the Gospel of John the Paraclete (Advocate) is referred to by neuter pronouns and is itself a neuter noun.

The word "Trinity" is not in the New Testament, but it's wrong to say the "idea" is not in it. The Father is called God. Jesus is called God (and it's more than just in the Pauline letters and John) . The Holy Spirit is called God. TGBaker insinuates that no neuter personal pronouns, referring to the Holy Spirit, exist in any manuscripts before the 4th Century, yet he provides no reference.  Besides the point is moot because Christian doctrine does not include that the Holy Spirit has gender - only personhood.

The idea of holy spirit in the New Testament is demonstrated by Paul's statement in I Corinthians 2: 10

these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

The understanding of the Spirit of God is that God has a spirit like any human has a spirit. This is why we see the term is neuter throughout the New Testament.

No, not at all. The relationship between the Holy Spirit and the rest of the God-Head is more complimented than that. Recall what Jesus told the woman at the well

²¹ “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. ²² You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. ²³ Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. ²⁴ God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” - John 4:21-24

God doesn't just have a Spirit. God is Spirit. TGBaker shows a complete misunderstanding of what the Trinity is. God is one being! Monotheism. We experience and interact with God in a personal way. Three Persons in the one being. I completely agree with what Paul wrote, but it doesn't go against Acts 5:    I' am surprised that he left it out of this discussion.

³ Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? ⁴ Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”  Acts 5:3-4

So the  Apostle Peter said that Annanias lied to the Holy Spirit and equated the Holy Spirit to God. On rtop of that, can you lie to an "it"? No, you can only lie to person(s).

This changed when Jesus began to be viewed as divine:

John 1:18, Θεν οὐδες ἑώρακεν πώποτε ὁ μονογεν θεός, ὁ ὤν εἱς τὸν κὀλπον τοῦ πατρός, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten god which is in the bosom of the Father has declared Him.

With Jesus as Logos and therefore the only begotten god monotheism was compromised. For two centuries the churches wrestled with the problem. Arianism which stated about Jesus, "There was a time when he was not" and several Trinitarian theories of co-eternal existence were competing . A plethora of Trinitarian formulas were running a muck. One won politically in part because Constantine bullied the counsel to come to a conclusion so that there would be one type of Christianity. One type won. Everybody else ran or was killed as heretics over the next several years.

People like TGBaker love to try to point out that the deity of Jesus is only supported by the Gospel of John, and many such individual want to date John as late as possible so they can conclude the belief evolved. Their problem is that  You don't need John to conclude that the first Christians did believe Jesus was God incarnate.

One of my favorites is the accounts (it is even in John) of  Jesus walking on water (see Matthew 14:22-34; Mark 6:45-56;  John 6:16-24). So why did Jesus walk on the water? To get to the other side, of course!!!  (Joking) The Old Testament says that God walks on water so by doing it, Jesus is identifying himself.

He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea. - Job 9:8

Not to mention most of the epistles wicho all these skeptics also want to date before John;'s Gospel.

¹⁵ The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. ¹⁶ For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. ¹⁷ He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. ¹⁸ And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. ¹⁹ For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, ²⁰ and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.- Colossians 1 :15-20

⁵ In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
 ⁶ Who, being in very nature God,
   did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
⁷ rather, he made himself nothing
   by taking the very nature of a servant,
   being made in human likeness.
⁸ And being found in appearance as a man,
   he humbled himself
   by becoming obedient to death—
      even death on a cross!
 ⁹ Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
   and gave him the name that is above every name,
¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
   in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
¹¹ and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
   to the glory of God the Father.- Philippians 2::5-11

And there are others passages outside of the Gospel of John!

Debunking Christianity: A Quick View to the Evolution of the Trinity

Related articles

• The God discussion (New Testament) - Why do I believe (Part 4) (melsmind.wordpress.com)
• BP. DESMOND TUTU's BOOK - "God is not a Christian" (kiwianglo.wordpress.com)
• May the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with You (sjbrown58.wordpress.com)
• Why I Love The Holy Spirit Of The Living GOD (thegreatreport.com)
• Bible Study Notes - The Trinity (xercised.wordpress.com)

Van Til and the Trinity: A Quick Response to PuritanReformed

Colin Smith has written a response to a response on his comments on Van Til and the Trinity. I liked what he said and I think he clarified what he had said even more.Collin wrote:

I used the term "essence of God" to describe the divinity shared between the three Persons of the Trinity. The point is that this "divine essence" is not impersonal, but it is by virtue of this shared divinity that the Persons share attributes of the divine, and these attributes are personal. If I may spell it out, the being of God has divine attributes that are personal, and these attributes are shared between the three Persons of the Trinity. As far as I understand, there is nothing heretical about that. Perhaps this point may be a little obvious for a Westminster Seminary student (and I mean no disrespect by that), but I daresay this is not a thought that has occupied much attention in the thinking of most evangelicals.

I think Collin is right. And explains why the Bible uses personal single pronouns regarding God in the Old Testament and for God - the father, God - the son, and God - the Holy Spirit in the New Testament.
Van Til and the Trinity: A Quick Response to PuritanReformed

Deity of Christ Debate, Pt. 2

Thanks to Jeff Downs for announcing that the 2nd part of the Jame White and Michael Brown team up to defend the Deity of Christ and the Trinity. A great video!

Deity of Christ Debate, Pt. 2

Think it Thru: Can Anyone See God? on Vimeo

Dr. Micheal Brown tweeted a link to this following video. I love it. I really like the way he breaks down this subject. Has anyone seen God? Watch Dr. Brown answer this question. I love the way he explains God's nature!


 Think it Thru: Can Anyone See God? from RealMessiah.com on Vimeo.


Think it Thru: Can Anyone See God? on Vimeo

Islam and Christianity A Common Word: Phillipians 2:5-7 The Kenosis and the alleged deity of Christ Jesus

Often thegrandverbalizer posts really interesting articles on his blog from a Muslim perspective. Many times these articles seek to explain why Christians are wrong about the Trinity and Jesus' deity. He wrote:

The theological rift between Christians and Muslims exist because of thirty six Greek words in a New Testament epistle entitled Phillipians. I ask you sisters and brothers is it worth it? Do you want this seperation between us to continue because of thirty six Greek works in an epistle not written or approved of by Christ Jesus? An epistle that has ambiguous language that Christians themselves are in much dispute over? The Holy Qur'an has come to call the Christians back to pure monotheism. It is time to come back home.

He says that the words in question are from

Philippians 2:5-7 (New American Standard Bible)

⁵Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
⁶who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,⁷but ^[a] emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Footnotes:

1. Philippians 2:7 I.e. laid aside His privileges

Then he writes something that really baffles me.

So what does it mean when we say that Christ Jesus 'emptied himself' ? Emptied himself of what? The term or word kenosis means 'emptying' or 'to empty'. If he emptied himself of his attributes than he is no longer God because God is not God without his attributes.

That would be like Clark Kent going into the crystal chamber and giving up his Super-man powers. Superman is not superman without his powers he is just Clark Kent.

I'm baffled because I'm not sure he read the footnote. Paul was not saying that Jesus laid aside that which makes Jesus God. What Jesus laid aside was those privileges that comes with that. He humbled himself to the point of death.


Further, thegrandverbalizer wrote:

"Do you have an instance of Jesus healing or forgiving people BEFORE he recieved the Holy Spirit?"

None of the Christians so far have attempted to interact with that question. You can see it here:

http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/06/sin-forgiving-god.html

Christians don't interact with that question because we don't think that there was evedr a time where Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit, nor any time when He was not God. Paul wrote in Colossians 1:15-20

¹⁵He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. ¹⁶For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. ¹⁷He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. ¹⁸And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. ¹⁹For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, ²⁰and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Paul obviously believed that Jesus was God. And so did the Apostle John in John 1:1-18

¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ²He was with God in the beginning.
³Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ⁴In him was life, and that life was the light of men. ⁵The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
⁶There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. ⁷He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. ⁸He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. ⁹The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
¹⁰He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. ¹¹He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. ¹²Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— ¹³children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
¹⁴The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
¹⁵John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " ¹⁶From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. ¹⁷For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ¹⁸No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

So did Isaiah...Read Isaiah 9:6

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

I think the disconnect is that thegrandverbalizer does not understand what the Trinity is. I can't fault him for that because i don't think anyone fully understand it. Thegrandverbalizer wrote

This brings us to the argument from Rene Descartes (Cogito ergo Sum) I think, therefore I am)

Rene Descartes speaks of person as the subject of self-awareness and freedom-in brief, person as a conscious and autonomous self.

Is God aware of his own existence?

Does 'God the Father' think?

Does 'God the Son' think?

Does 'God the Holy Spirit' think?

If there is only one mind and one self existence than God is absolutely one and not tri-unity. IF there are three minds and three self existences than without doubt Christians have slipped into Tri-theism and worship three gods.

IS the Trinitarian God one in mind, will, and action? If so, how can this be so? If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in mind, will and action, in what sense can they be three persons If the three act as one and so are one in nature, what room is left to distinguish three persons?

Again the problem is a fundamental misunderstanding on what we are talking about when we talk of the Trinity. Descartes proof for self awareness does not work for God.  God's existence is not causal. Rather everything that exists does so because of God. God exists...period. God's sustains God with God. "I think therefore I am" works for humans but not for God. The closest God can can truthfully say about His own existence is "I AM". (In Hebrew it's closer to say "I IS". The Trinity is not about three distinct beings. God is one being and three distinct persons. The Bible says that the Father is God. The Son is God.  The Holy Spirit is God.  And there is one God. God is self-existent. The divine name contains all of this and more.

Thegrandverbalizer insinuated that Jesus would never had agreed to the high place and standard that we give to Jesus. If that were the case then why did the Jews of His time understand that Jesus was claiming equality with God? Why did Jesus not refuse worship?

What did Jesus mean in the following passage: John 8:52-59

 ⁵²At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. ⁵³Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
 ⁵⁴Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. ⁵⁵Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. ⁵⁶Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
 ⁵⁷"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
 ⁵⁸"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" ⁵⁹At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Jesus seemed pretty clear about who He is. Why do we doubt the things that He says?


Islam and Christianity A Common Word: Phillipians 2:5-7 The Kenosis and the alleged deity of Christ Jesus

The Qur'an in the Light of God-breathed Scripture: Shirk, Trinity, Christ, in Surah 5

Here is a great post on Surah 5. from the Qur'an. Months ago I posted a video from James White on the same subject. Here is what White wrote on this essay discussing the relationship between Islam and Christianity. What struck me most about the post was this quotation from the Qur'an:

72. Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers.
73. Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three in a Trinity." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them.
74. Will they not then turn to Allah and seek His forgiveness? Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
75. Christ, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Rasool; many Rasools had already passed away before him. His mother was a truthful woman; they both ate earthly food like other human beings. See how the Revelations are made clear to them to know reality; yet see how they ignore the truth!
76. Ask them: "Would you worship besides Allah someone who can neither harm nor benefit you? While Allah is He who hears all and knows all." - Surah 5:72-76

Dr. White then gives some observations on the text. I think this one is the most important.

3) Note the error of v. 73: Allah one of three in a Trinity? Even if one were to make the identification of Allah = the Father, it is clear that the author is operating on the misunderstanding that the Trinity posits three separate gods. And the Qur'an makes itself clear: Christians are to "stop saying" (stop teaching, believing) the central doctrine of their faith, the Trinity. There is no ground for compromise here.

The Trinity is definitional for what it means to be a Christian. Without it...it's not Christianiy. You throw out Jesus' deity and with that you loose the death, burial, and resurrection - and what do you have? A social club not a church.This means there is no way to be both a Christian and a Muslim. They both can't be right. The Qur'an is not describing the doctrine of the Trinity as James White make it clear. "One of three what?". If you understand what Christians are saying you know we mean three persons not three Gods. God is one in Being. Being and personhood are not the same thing. "What you are?" has a different answer than the question "who you are?". I've written several posts on the Trinity on this blog and linked to other great ones. I'd like to point out that the reason why we believe the Trinity because The Father is said to be God. The Son is said to be God. The Holy Spirit is said to be God. And God in One! The whole of the Bible teaches this.  It's documented in the other posts on the Trinity

The Qur'an in the Light of God-breathed Scripture: Shirk, Trinity, Christ, in Surah 5

Christianity and Islam: the Nature of God

In case if you have not heard, Dr. James White is in London, England. He posted a table of contents slide for a presentation he will be doing today. I can't wait to see this one!

Christianity and Islam: the Nature of God

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : A Consideration of Anti-Trinitarian Views, part 2 of 2

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Here is Mariano's second part of his miniseries stating discussing objections to the Trinity. Here is the introduction.

Having concluded a consideration of various biblical statements which demonstrate that God is a Triune being, a Trinity, as each member of the Trinity is identified by likewise attributes, each is a person, each is co-equal and co-eternal let us now consider various anti-Trinitarian views.

Part 1: Some Jewish Views and Mormonism
Part 2: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Science and Early Church Fathers

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : A Consideration of Anti-Trinitarian Views, part 2 of 2

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : A Consideration of Anti-Trinitarian Views, part 1 of 2

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Mariano is changing the focus of his series of articles  regarding the Trinity. He has a two-part essay discussing objections to the Trinity and why they don't hold. In this first part he tackles Judaism and Mormonism. Read his masterpiece at the link below.

Many people don't realize that there is Old Testament references to Jesus and therefore the Trinity. Mariano's series on the Trinity is most certainly a great place to begin your study of such a thing. Also I would recommend the music of Hazakim. In the song posted below...they summarize why Christians believe you can see the Trinity in the Old Testament.




Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : A Consideration of Anti-Trinitarian Views, part 1 of 2

Anthony Buzzard Debate on Unbelievable!

Dr. James White just posted on his blog an announcement that he will be debating Anthony Buzzard (pictured) on the radio during his trip to  London. Dr White wrote:

Well, the Lord answered prayer and opened the way for an Unbelievable Radio Program debate with Sir Anthony Buzzard, formerly of Atlanta Bible College, one of the leading Socinians of our day.

After hearing last Thursday's Dividing Line webcast I'm interested in hearing the debate because during that program Buzzard's Anti-Trinitarian arguments were refuted. Take a listen to get to understand why the Trinity is so important. 

Anthony Buzzard Debate on Unbelievable!

Trinity : Does the Bible Teach Theological Subordinationism?

Here is Mariano latest post on his series about the Trinity.  In this one he shows that Muslims and those who deny Jesus' equality with God  really miss an important point. Here is a quote:

Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him, He did not say that the Father was better than Him. The president of the United States is greater than I am, but he is not better.
When Jesus came to Earth He humbled Himself and became obedient, He became a little lower than the angels, He came as a man in the service of the LORD and therefore, called the Father His God (see Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 2:9; John 20:17). This refers to position and not to ontology.

 This is an important post and you really should read the rest of it! Check out the graphic he included on the left that illustrates what you have when you reject the Trinity and Mariano does a great job explaining it in the article.

Trinity : Does the Bible Teach Theological Subordinationism?

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Are Jesus and the Archangel Michael the Same Personage?

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Here is the next article in Mariano's series of blog posts regarding the Trinity. This time Mariano presents Bible passages that refute the heresy that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are one and the same. Some Jehovah Witnesses teach this. The Bible says different!

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Are Jesus and the Archangel Michael the Same Personage?

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Which Member of the Trinity is Worshipped

Here is another in a series of posts from Mariano who shows that the Trinity is upheld in the Bible through showing that Jesus is equal to God. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are all shown and commanded to be worshipped.. He offers several scriptures to prove that!

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Which Member of the Trinity is Worshipped

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Who is the Judge?

Mariano has posted another article on the Trinity. This time he discuss who the Bible says is judge and worthy to judge us. Just as the Bible says: the Father and the Son are both judge.

Christian Apologetics - Life and Doctrine: Trinity : Who is the Judge?