Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Harold Camping Arrested?

I'm not sure if its true that Harold Camping has been arrested but if the article at http://www.benningtonvalepress.com/2011/10/harold-camping-in-custody-after.html is true then Camping is in even more trouble than I thought. Remember last May when his prediction that the rapture would be May 21st failed and then he claimed that it was really spiritual and then he moved the rapture to October 21st? Well in much of the world it's October 22nd as I write this and nothing happened! IT could be enough to send him over the edge if people really did prank him that way. Oh well. He's a laughing stock. Even in Taiwan.




Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Harold Camping Arrested?

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Eavesdropping on Campingites

Image by Getty Images via @daylifeJames Swan has posted some comments from Harold Camping's supporters for how his heresy mistake in predicting the Rapture has affected their own lives as well as people they know.


Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Eavesdropping on Campingites

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• Apocalypse Not: Harold Camping wrong - again.Changed to 21 Oct, 2011 (morduin5150.wordpress.com)
• Harold Camping Doubles Down (atheistrev.com)

Iron Sharpens Iron: Mark Allison: Harold Camping Still Defiant

Dr Mark Allison was interviewed recently on Iron Sharpens Iron. He discussed Harold Camping's defiant and stubborn attitude. Follow the link to hear it.

Iron Sharpens Iron: Mark Allison: Harold Camping Still Defiant

FacePalm of the Day #81 - Debunking Christianity: Harold Camping Step Aside, Jesus Was Wrong And Should Be Ignored Too

John Loftus pointed to the following video but he and many other often make this facepalm worthy accusations against Jesus. They claim that Jesus should be considered a false prophet because he promised his 2nd advent in the lifetime of his followers and it didn't happen. Still hasn't happened yet. Here is the video:





So why is this not a problem? Let's look at the scriptures and deal with three accounts being pointed towards.

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it[d] is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. - Mark 13:28-31

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. - Matthew 24:32-34

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Luke 21:29-33

Many skeptics say we should try to read the Bible horizontally. Let's do that. The question is what does "generation" mean? The events Jesus is referring to can't mean his second advent given the verses that comes from directly after their proof texting.

³² “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ³³ Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. ³⁴ It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
   ³⁵ “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. ³⁶ If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. ³⁷ What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’” - Mark 13:32-37

³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,^[f] but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
   ⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. ⁴⁴ So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. - Matthew 24:36-44

³⁴ “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. ³⁵ For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. ³⁶ Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”  - Luke 21:34-36

So why would Jesus in one breath say "I'll be back in your lifetime." And then in the next breath say "no one knows the day or hour" and to live as though it  could be at any moment." Does that make sense? That is a major contradiction and there is no reason to add it. Even if you think that the Gospels are not inspired or written according to eyewitness testimony, you have to admit that it makes no sense for a single author to conflict himself so strikingly. It makes more sense to agree that Jesus was not saying the Judgment day was promised before Jesus' hearers died. Many scholars today actually look at these passages as referring to more than just Jesus' second coming but refers to the destruction of the 2nd Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. Some even think that the entire passage only refers to 70 AD. I'm not willing to go that far.

As for what Jesus meant by "generation", the word was translated from the Greek word "Genea". Genea can refer to the group of people living at the same time. However "race" or "that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family". Jesus clearly was not saying he would return before everyone who was listening him died.  He did promise that they would see their nation destroyed before that group who was listening to him all died out.

Recall what the disciples were asking Jesus. They asked him:

³ As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” - Matthew 24:3

 
Was Jesus wrong? No he wasn't. He answered their question. I don't think it can be shown that those who heard Jesus heard what Loftus reads into Jesus' words now. I do think the Bible bears out that they did think Jesus was going to return in their lifetimes. Jesus told them to live as if He was going to return in their lifetimes. Just as we should today. However, Jesus did not set at a date. Neither should we.

Debunking Christianity: Harold Camping Step Aside, Jesus Was Wrong And Should Be Ignored Too

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Iron Sharpens Iron: Kenneth R. Samples: Does Harold Camping Meet the Criteria for Being a Cult Leader?

                           Image via WikipediaRecently  Dr. Ken Samples was a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron. He discussed the question of whether or not we should consider Harold Camping a cult leader or not? He discussed how to recognize a cult. Very interesting discussion.

Iron Sharpens Iron: Kenneth R. Samples: Does Harold Camping Meet the Criteria for Being a Cult Leader?

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Now that Judgment Day Has Arrived, What Will Family Radio Play?

Image by Newbirth35 via FlickrI was wondering what Camping would be teaching now? A caller called into Open Forum and asked him. She got the following instructions..... I mean....this is what Family Radio is gonna do.

1. Stop witnessing
2. No more tracts (can't have written documentation, y'know)
3. Play comforting music.
4. Read your Bible.

Summary:
So 1988, the Church came under Judgment...he says.
Now the whole earth is under judgment and no one else who was saved before May the 21st can be saved. And you can't know if you were saved.

Conclusion:
More lies. No repentance. The Bible says no  such things.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Now that Judgment Day Has Arrived, What Will Family Radio Play?

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Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Fearful Teen Commits Suicide Due to Harold Camping's Judgment Day Prediction

                         Image via WikipediaI thought that some people could be pushed by Harold Camping's propaganda into extreme and dangerous acts of desperation. A 14 year-old girl in Russia committed suicide because she thought she missed the rapture. A young man from Florida drowned when he jumped into the reservoir in Contra Loma Regional Park in Antioch, CA. I'm sure that Harold Camping does not really think he is responsible for this or anyone. The Bible tells us that people who teach his word are responsible for we teach others. Even if our government does not hold Camping responsible, God does  Jesus said:.

⁶ “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. ⁷ Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! - Matthew 18:6-7

This is a great article. Here are some valuable resources about what is currently happening with this story.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Fearful Teen Commits Suicide Due to Harold Camping's Judgment Day Prediction

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FacePalm of the Day #80 - Wrong, root and branch; wrong at every cell and molecule; wrong to the core : Pharyngula

John Loftus posted a link to an article written by PZ Meyers about Harold Camping. I think it's worth looking at his post. There are things we can learn about the mind of the unregenerate sinner's mind. The article proves that although the Bible-believing Christian must reject Camping's teaching - agreeing with atheists on that point - the disagreement with Camping comes form a whole different set of reasons. PZ Meyers is just as wrong and deluded as Camping is deceived. I've re-posted Meyer's article with my comments in red.

The world didn't end last Saturday (obviously), but Harold Camping and his predictions are just a smokescreen, and everyone is missing the heart of the problem.

You mean that Camping being wrong and unrepentant doesn't mean the Bible is wrong? .I know...but one could hope.

Camping has now spoken. He now claims that Jesus did arrive 'spiritually' on the 21st, and that in his generous mercy, God has decided to spare us the 153 days of the tribulation, but that the world will still be ending on 21 October. This is no surprise. This is exactly what these crackpot prophets do: they're never right, but they are great at rationalizing.

 And just where in the Bible did Camping get all of that?  The Bible says no such thing.

His followers are busy readjusting. Here's a radio interview with one bible-thumper; the guy who threw away his life savings on subway signs was left wandering in Times Square, confused and disappointed. None of them has changed their beliefs about the biblical apocalypse, they're just fudging the dates.
The Family Radio website has been scrubbed clean of mentions of Judgment Day.
And what do I see from most people? A stern finger-wagging with biblical authority reaffirmed.

Biblical authority is affirmed because it is promised that false prophets will be shown for the frauds that they are. And notice how Camping does exactly opposite what the Bible says we should do.

I was sent that image by someone who clearly thought it was a joke, but I am not laughing. I'm angry, instead. I don't fucking care what fucking Jesus fucking said. The problem is NOT that some kook in California plucked numbers out of the Bible and conjured up a numerological justification for a date: the idiocy runs much deeper than that.

 First, why the profanity? Can't we make valid points without being vulgar? In Meyer's case here it  is important to point out that we should care what Jesus said because when we find some one saying opposite and mutually exclusive claims - we know we have a false prophet.

• The entire myth of dispensationalism — that time is divided into distinct ages with discrete beginnings and ends, characterized by distinct bodies of knowledge granted us by divine will — is nonsense. These fairy tales of a rapture and tribulation and world destruction are entirely the invention of crank theologians elaborating on the ravings of the 19th century Irish priest, John Nelson Darby. It's no more sourced or historical or rational than the goddamn Book of Mormon.

Obviously, Meyer's disagrees with Darby. Fine. Lots of Christians do.  Equating his ideas with the Book of Mormon shows that he probably doesn't know anything about the Book of Mormon. On top of that, given that he does not care about what Jesus said, he probably doesn't know what the Bible says about Darby's ideas anymore than he does about Camping.

• Christian eschatology is a vile and hateful message about their imaginary tyrant god who, once again, is scheduled to have a temper tantrum in which he kills almost everyone, snatches up their souls, and makes them suffer for eternity for being human. A few will be spared; their reward is an eternity of servility, but at least they get to know they're better than everyone else. And that's the real lesson here: it's all about elitism and the most extreme threats imaginable to anyone who does not support these self-appointed masters of dogma. Again, there's no reason to believe any of it, other than that people have absorbed the propaganda for the whole of their lifetime.

I sure would like to know who Meyer talks to.  Not all Christians would agree with the eschatology he presents here. Easy to grab a straw man, knock it down (without proving it wrong), and then lump all Christians in it.  NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. No one who believes the Bible thinks that. Even Camping is not that dumb and he's got a lot of theological problems.

• The Christian bible is supposed to be the ultimate source of authority, and to many of the more extreme, the only source of authority. It's got 'bible codes' in it; it's a rich vein of numerological bullshit to be mined; it's vagued, confused, ambiguous, and contradictory, a refuse heap of tribal gobbledygook hallowed by nothing other than long ages of accumulation. Our minds try desperately to find pattern and meaning in what we observe around us, and the best source to trigger all kinds of lunatic pattern generating theories is a nearly totally incoherent mass of text with huge cultural signposts pointing at it and screaming that it is important.
  It's like being told that a tangled, confusing clump of jungle, all bewildering with shadow and random shapes slashing across it, is the home of a fierce tiger that will kill you if you get close. Stare hard at it, and you can convince yourself that there is something dangerous lurking there, even if it contains no animal larger than a rabbit.

Bible codes and numerology "gobbledygook" is what makes the Bible confused, ambiguous, and contradictory,. This is what Camping has done, not what Biblical Christianity is. Meyer makes a lot of broad generalizations with no proof.   He describes Camping's  errors "doctrine" very well but doesn't really seem to have a handle at all what the Bible says salvation is or who Jesus is and why it's important. Pathetically, neither does Camping.

Sure, everyone is laughing at Harold Camping now, except his followers, who are undeterred. But you're missing the real joke. Look at every Abrahamic religion, with their myths of prophets and favored peoples and fate. Look at the crazy conservative church in your town, that preaches homophobia and anti-science and supports Israel because of the Armageddon prophecy. Look at the liberal Christian church down the street from you that has the nice Vacation Bible School and puts on happy plays for the older kids, and also teaches that one day you will stand before a great god and be judged. Look at your family members who blithely believe in death as a mini-apocalypse, in which they will be magically translated into another realm, again to be judged.

 "Magic" has nothing to do with it. Again, pointing to Camping is really bad example of what Christians believe and think. If you read the Bible like he does no wonder you think that the Bible is useless. All you have to do is read it. Look at it in the same way you read anything from a historical, cultural,  and plain context and you cannot get out of it what Meyer or  Camping get out of the Bible.  Meyer revealed he doesn't care What Jesus said,. Then how do you know Camping is wrong or anyone for that matter is wrong?   Without a standard, you can't know. Harold Camping makes an awful standard.

It's the very same rot, the poison of religion that twists minds away from reality and fastens them on hellish bogeymen. They're demented fuckwits, every one, and the big lie rests right on the fundamental beliefs of supernaturalism and deities, not on the ephemera of one crank's bizarre interpretations.
And to the next person who quotes Matthew 24:36 at me: you're part of the problem, too.

Did  Camping lie about what the Bible says? Yup. It's stupid and unscientific to throw the Bible under the proverbial bus based on his lie.   Meyer already had the conclusion that the Bible was a lie before May 21 2011 and he is using Camping to validate that belief.  The logical problem is that according to the Bible  Camping is liar n and stands condemned.  Meyer is standing with him also condemned.  But if we repent of our sin and put our trust in Jesus Christ we will not be condemned with Camping.

Wrong, root and branch; wrong at every cell and molecule; wrong to the core : Pharyngula

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Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Bill Shishko and other Pastors Review Harold Camping

James Swan has recently posted a couple audios from Rev Bill Shishko on a couple of shows he did on Harold Camping. This is valuable because he knew Harold Camping and he is one of those who have tried to talk to Camping and asked him to repent of his heresies. Really interesting.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Bill Shishko and other Pastors Review Harold Camping

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Ooops..it was a "spiritual" meaning!

Mike Felker has pointed out an article in which Harold Camping explained why his May 21, 2011 date for the rapture is wrong. So what about all the people's lives rocked and destroyed because they believed Camping's hogwash?

Monday, rather than give his normal daily broadcast, Camping took questions as a part of his show, "Open Forum," which transmits his biblical interpretations via the group's radio stations, TV channels, satellite broadcasts and website.

Camping's hands shook slightly as he pinned his microphone to his lapel, and as he clutched a worn Bible he spoke in a quivery monotone about some listeners' earthly concerns after giving away possessions in expectation of the Rapture.

Family Radio would never tell anyone what they should do with their belongings, and those who had fewer would cope, Camping said.

"We're not in the business of financial advice," he said. "We're in the business of telling people there's someone who you can maybe talk to, maybe pray to, and that's God."

But he also said that he wouldn't give away all his possessions ahead of Oct 21.

"I still have to live in a house, I still have to drive a car," he said. "What would be the value of that? If it is Judgment Day why would I give it away?"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/23/preacher-got-date-apocalypse-wrong-tries-says-months/#ixzz1NIKd7n6p

Unbelievable!I loved Mike's summation of Camping's explanation.

When your doomsday end-of-the-world prediction doesn't come to pass; give it a "spiritual" meaning instead.

I do hold Camping responsible, but those people ignored the Bible and listened to Camping instead are not free of accountability. IT would help if Camping would really admit that he was wrong, repent, and ask for forgiveness. Not yet, but God is still in the business of Miracles.

THE APOLOGETIC FRONT: Silly me...it was a "spiritual" meaning!

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An Open Letter to Harold Camping of Family Radio

James White has written an open letter to Harold Camping of Family Radio urging him to come to his senses. You can read it here:

An Open Letter to Harold Camping of Family Radio

What has Camping to say today given how wrong he was about May 21, 2011? James White responded to what Camping had to say. He quotes Camping and comments:

"We had all of our dates correct. We had all our proofs correct." "May 21 was a spiritual coming...He has come, in the sense that He now has the world under judgment." Well, I pretty well called that one, sadly. I had a feeling we would be stuck with this foolishness until October 21, 2011. What an amazingly foolish thing: "Well, folks, we only have 153 days to go, but, hey, we aren't going to put up billboards and stuff, we are going to play music and do teaching about how to live as a good Christian." Brilliant. I can't wait to see the video of this.




The comment can be found here.

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Iron Sharpens Iron: James White: Harold Camping and the End of the World

James White was a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron discussing this fiasco with Harold Camping failed prophecy. Follow the link to Iron Shapens Iron.


Iron Sharpens Iron: James White: Harold Camping and the End of the World

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RaptureFail | Harold Camping is SO wrong

I heard this particular website from James White's podcast from May 19th. It's a good idea:

Joining in the RaptureFail project is really easy. Once 6pm Saturday has passed where you are, simply signup for an account on the website making sure you register your location. Once you’ve verified your account we’ll add your location to the RaptureFail map, building up a picture of all the places in theorld where Harold Camping’s prophecy has failed. Couldn’t be simpler!
Once you’ve registered your RaptureFail, see what others are saying here.

The site even summarizes Harold Camping's prophecy and points out some of its flaws. I agree with the following:

As Christians who take the Bible seriously we believe that “prophecies” like these demean the church’s witness in the world. The purpose of this site is to demonstrate very clearly (and to mock gently) that this is a false prophecy and that Harold Camping is a false prophet.

The sad thing is that that Camping's delusions turn the Rapture and Biblical teachings to a mockery. The important thing to remember is that Jesus is going to be returning and we don't know when. We need to be ready. If by some miracle, Camping has guessed right I've got nothing to worry about because I am saved according to what the Bible says. More important question is what about you? Are you ready for when Jesus returns, even if it is not May 21st?

RaptureFail | Harold Camping is SO wrong

Thoughts on Predicting the End | Bible.org Blogs

Dr Darrell Bock posted his thoughts on Harold Camping's May 21st Rapture prophecy. I agree with him and its well worth reading.

Thoughts on Predicting the End | Bible.org Blogs

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The Dunamis Word: False Prophet ~ Countdown To Apostasy

Elder Burnett has posted a great article about the major times in the past in 200 years people have gave dates for the rapture of the Church and points out that it's no different today than with Harold Camping's prediction of May 21,2011. It is a great article. I did read the Bible, that is why I disagree with Camping. Read it at the following link.

The Dunamis Word: False Prophet ~ Countdown To Apostasy

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Will Judgment Day Happen on May 21, 2011? | Dr. Claude Mariottini – Professor of Old Testament

 Dr Claude Mariottini has posted a good article on Harold Camping's prophecy that God will rapture His people on May 21st 2011 at 6 pm. I agree with Dr Mariottini on the post whole-heartedly.

Will Judgment Day Happen on May 21, 2011? | Dr. Claude Mariottini – Professor of Old Testament

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: NPR Picks up on Harold Camping

As May 21st approaches I expected more of the secular media to be talking more about Harold Camping and his ministry. His gall amazes me. He was wrong about 1994. There was no rapture. Why does he think (why does anyone think) this time will be different? Jesus said no one but the Father knows.That's good enough for me. Jesus did not tell us when He would return. He was clear. We don't need to waste time trying to figure out when. We just need to be ready. Instead of asking yourself when it will happen or if it will happen, we should be asking are we ready? I appreciate James Swan for pointing these NPR reports out.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: NPR Picks up on Harold Camping

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Hector Avalos: No Judgment Day on May 21

John Loftus has posted a link to the following article on his blog by Dr. Hector Avalos regarding Harold Camping's prophesied date for Jesus' Second Coming and the Rapture of the church as May 21, 2011. Loftus and Dr. Avalos are atheists but in this case they agree with scripture that Harold Camping is a false prophet. Jesus said

³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,^[f] but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
⁴² “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ⁴³ But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. ⁴⁴ So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. - Matt 24:36-44

This isn't the first time Camping has made false prophesies of the end of the world. He said the same thing about 1994 and 2000. We just need to heed what Jesus said.


Hector Avalos: No Judgment Day on May 21

Camping has been refuted in public. Look at this.

Harold Camping: The Day After?

James Swan has posted a great article about how Harold Camping will need to figure out how to deal with the fact that he is wrong that Jesus will return in May 2011. He was wrong in 1994 and he is wrong now. How do we know? Jesus said that it will be a time that will be a surprise to everyone. He said that no man knows the day or the hour.

Harold Camping: The Day After?