John Loftus posted his "thoughts" about man's accountability for our sex lives. It's an old line of discussion but I think he makes some interesting errors and has biases that he seems oblivious to. It's instructive to think through his arguments and see if they make sense. His original words are in black, and mine are bolded..
You know you like it. Sometimes all you can think of is having sex. Come on. You know this is true. Sometimes it dominates your thinking. You cannot wait to have it. You fantasize about it. You must have it. It is probably the best natural high we experience.
John is right that is how many of us think of sex. Notice he ssys "You must have it." I have never heard of a single case of a person dying because they don't get to have sex as he points out in the next paragraph.
So why is an orgasm such a powerful motivator? It's not like we need it. We just want it. The power of the orgasm is so strong it motivates some married people into infidelity; some men to rape women; some
Catholic priests to direct these urges toward molesting children; and it drives the prostitution and the pornography industries, including child pornography.
From what I understand of Dr. Loftus' worldview he agrees that adultery, rape, and molesting children are all bad and destructive behaviors. He may even agree with me that there are negative consequences for these things. Our society does reject these behaviors but embraces fornication, pornography, and homosexuality...on the grounds that they fulfill people's needs without hurting anyone. However each of these are also examples of selfishness. Gratifying the desires of your own heart while ignoring God's law and how you are hurting others.
The orgasm just does not look like something that a divine being would create. It is way too powerful of a motivator. The three masters of suspicion, Nietzsche, Marx and Freud all argued respectively that the three motivators in life are Power, Money, and Sex.
The Bible calls these the lust of the eyes, the lust of the heart, and the pride of life. Notice neither power, nor money, or sex are evil in and of themselves. Sex is gift from God designed for a married man and woman to become "one flesh" on an exclusive level that binds them to one another for as long as the both live. It's not just for procreation.
So why did
God make our sex drive so strong? Why didn't he make the the orgasm less pleasurable? The pleasure of the orgasm is just too strong as it is. We all know this. With an evolutionary hypothesis this is what we'd expect to find, for our sex drive is good for the survival of our species. But under a theistic hypothesis it makes no sense.
Just because a tool can be misused does not make the tool evil. Orgasams in the proper context have no negative consequences. We have problems when we seek to use orgasms to fill needs that sex was not designed and for and in ways our bodies were not designed for. (An anus is an exit not an entrance.)
If the pleasure of the orgasm was reduced there would be fewer sex crimes, and less infidelity. Or, the orgasm could've been created so as not to be pleasurable at all. God could've made the sex drive to be something of an instinct where we only want to do it when we want children, and then also created our desire to have children periodically. If this is what God had done instead, then with divine commands to populate the world, heterosexual people would only have sex for the purpose of bearing children in fulfillment of his commands, and that's it.
God did not intend sex to be for procreation only...Read Song of Songs. If people would only have sex with their spouse and love them as they should that would eliminate sex crimes,.
Moreover, the urge for sex seems to be too strong for most of us to overcome it. So why would God create us with this powerful urge and then prohibit it except under one set of conditions, a monogamous lifelong heterosexual married life?
Simple...under such condition you don't have children orphaned by one or both parents because of selfishness. Both spouses have their needs met. It is an urge too powerful. That is why we need
God to help us. If he doesn't, you have no hope to even attempt to live up to that standard.
To masturbate certainly involves lust, does it not? But
Jesus is found to prohibit lusting. What about sex before marriage? What's wrong with that?
When two people have sex they are not just joining their bodies but their spirits too. If you don't know what I mean, then you haven't had a real orgasm. When you have sex without the commitment of a marriage you leave yourself vulnerable emotionally, spiritually, physically (ask John Bobbit) . If a person is marrying you they are saying that they will stick it out with you no matter what. If they are just having sex with you they can get up and leave at any time.
Most people in today's society, even Christians, have sex before marriage.
True, some Christians are disobedient. You let God worry about that.
What about people who will never be married?
God has provision for them. So they won't have children or have sex. What's wrong with that? Some people,I'd wager most people cannot handle that. For those of us who cannot, I can attest to the fact that God will give you the spouse you need. Some people should never get married. If you are unwilling to do make compromise, concessions, and sacrifices then you don't need to get married or have children....sex then is too heavy a burden for those who don't want the responsibility and the accountability.
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." - Matthew 19:3-12
What about people who will spend the rest of their lives in prison? [I taught college classes for a women's correctional facility and many of them said that lesbian sex was the best sex they ever had! What's the aternative for them?]
Again if they trust and obey God, they will be all right. There is forgiveness and restoration in some shape or form .Leave that to God.
What about the few years between marriages for people who are divorced?
Considering that God hates divorce...and marriage is supposed to be monogamous until either the man or woman dies...I think divorce is off the table if the two people are committed to God. However given that there are reasons for divorce, we know that people are not mandated to stay single if a reconciliation is not possible.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. - 1 Corinthians 7:15
And what best explains the fact that there are many homosexuals in our world? Why would God create this strong urge for them and also condemn such an activity? This too makes no sense on a theistic hypothesis.
Sin - best explains the fact that there is homosexuality. Macro evolution does not. When people go against the standard and direction God has for us all then they are practicing sin. God does not create liars. God does not create thieves. People however are liars and thieves. God does not create people in such a way that we are supposed to be sinners. Just like you can repent and be made whole from any sin so you can be saved from homosexuality.We are saved from sin and death because of Jesus. You don't have to be bound or controlled by anything decreed a sin. You can be free if you embrace Jesus.
Hell, I'll even bet all this talk about sex will cause some readers to do a search right now for a sex site, even Christians. Say it isn't so. Christian, you search for sex sites. Yet you feel guilty about it. The problem is that any prohibitions that make you feel guilty about this do not come from God.
John Loftus has a point. God is in the process of freeing us, if you are a Christian. Some things don't just fall off right away...it's a process.
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: - Philippians 1:6
You can read John Loftus' original post below!
Debunking Christianity: God, Sex, and the Orgasm
Mike Felker has posted his own response and I agree with him that this post was "
Probably the Worst Atheist Argument I have ever heard".
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