Truthbomb Apologetics: Video: Horus Reads the Internet

Truthbomb Apologetics: Video: Horus Reads the Internet

The Double Standard

I found  the following comic on Tumblr and I think it shows the fundamental double standard.  I don't know if the author of the comic strip is for or against same-sex marriage but it does point out an obvious contradiction. If it does not matter who you love but only standing up for that love, then what do you tell the pedophile who wants to marry a child or the person who wants to marry a dog or a cat or a horse or all of the above? Most people agree that we need to limit this, but on what grounds? And how far? Personally, I think the way God has limited this is the only logical and fair answer.

wades-emporium: monasticmaestoso: juicemark: ... | K Tempest Tumbles

Another Really Bad Argument

Just because something is "Legal" or "Illegal" does not make it good, moral, or right.

Thinking God's Thoughts: Marriage = Biology (Not Bigotry) Video

Want a secular argument for NOT legalizing same-sex marriages? Here are some good ones!




Thinking God's Thoughts: Marriage = Biology (Not Bigotry) Video

Here Comes Incest, Just as Predicted

Women on Top: How Real Life Has Changed Women's Sexual Fantasies (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Dr Michael Brown has written an article in which he points out that as much as supporters for same-sex marriage want to deny it - changing the definition of marriage will lead to many other taboos being legitimized. He wrote:

Simply stated, with the public endorsement of same-sex relationships, the endorsement (or at least acceptance) of consensual, adult, incestuous relationships is inevitable.

 Dr Brown shows that without a standard we have no reason to make any relationship taboo.  I think anyone with an interest in this should read this article. Dr Brown further comments:

A gay man and his partner once asked me, “But how can you say our relationship is wrong? We’re not hurting anyone and there is no victim.” I asked them, “Would you approve of two adult gay brothers having a relationship?” They both replied, “But that is so wrong!” Yet when I pressed them further, they could not say why their relationship was fine but that of two consenting brothers was not.
So, what’s it going to be? Do we hold the line on marriage as the union of a man and woman only, or do we eventually open the door to incest too?

Here Comes Incest, Just as Predicted

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Thank You, Douglas Wilson

Ken has posted an awesome summary post on a couple of lectures Pastor Douglas Wilson gave on human sexuality and it's place as God has designed reality. It give links to all of the videos, Dr James White's comments on his Podcasts, and links to Wilson's debate against James White and Wilson's debates against Christopher Hitchens. A virtual treasure trove in a single blog post!

The comments Ken makes on the material, as well as Dr White's comments on his web cast or well worth considering! Get the material at the following link

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Thank You, Douglas Wilson

James White Responds to "14 Steps That Will Evolve Your Views On Gay Marriage"

Dr James White has responded to the following blog article on his webcast last Tuesday.

14 Steps That Will Evolve Your Views On Gay Marriage

It is a really good response and shows why these steps are silly and don't really make any sense what-so-ever. The picture on the left is a case in point. Listen here.

Surprising No One, 'One Million Moms' Is Mad About Gay X-Men - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews

There has been much media attention given to the X-Man Northstar marring another male character in the comics next month. I think that the commentary by Chris Sims of Comics Alliance should be taken notice of. I respect Chris Sims and enjoy his commentary on culture and media. I don't always agree with him but I like the way he expresses himself. At times he's really insightful. In this case he weighs in on the "One Million Moms" group attacking the move by Marvel and calling for parents to boycott.

He quotes the group's website:

Children desire to be just like superheroes. Children mimic superhero actions and even dress up in costumes to resemble these characters as much as possible. Can you imagine little boys saying, "I want a boyfriend or husband like X-Men?"

Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/05/25/one-one-million-moms-mad-about-gay-x-men/#ixzz1w2p7La5E

I agree with Mr Sims that this is really stupid. Neither reading a book or watching a movie or television makes you gay. Really, really stupid.

I also agree with Sims that the lesson we should get from X-Men and other superheroes:

What they teach you is that you should use your abilities to help the people around you and make the world a better place rather than just throwing your weight around to be a bully. And they teach you that when the world hates and fears someone just because they're different, it's the world that's wrong.

Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/05/25/one-one-million-moms-mad-about-gay-x-men/#ixzz1w2pnoNO0

The thing I disagree with is that pointing out embracing a behavior or actions that go against a person's well being is bullying and hatred.  Unfortunately, Christians have not given gay people the love they deserve. Homosexuality is no worse a sin than lying or stealing or murder, but often Christians tell Homosexuals that what they are doing is the worse possible sin you can do. That's not what the Bible says. God doesn't hate homosexuals. God calls all of us to repentance and holiness. Not just homosexuals. We all have sinned not just homosexuals. How is it hatred to tell someone that God loves you and has better for you if you just trust God and obey God. God has got the best for you.God will improve your life. You don't have to settle for less than the very best God has for you. 

The following verse applies to all of us.

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. ² Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will. - Romans 12:1,2

But you can't do it without God and God will help you if you give yourself to God.

Surprising No One, 'One Million Moms' Is Mad About Gay X-Men - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews

Truthbomb Apologetics: Video: Frank Turek Speaks on Same-Sex Marriage

Truthbomb Apologetics: Video: Frank Turek Speaks on Same-Sex Marriage

"Gay Christianity" Refuted! By Dr James White

Dr James White has painstakingly and thoroughly responded to a video by Matthew Vines on Christianity and Homosexuality. Vines discusses in his video (about an hour in length) why Christianity should not be at odds with monogamous homosexual marriages. You can see the original video below:




Dr White actually played the audio from the video and responded to each of Vines points over several podcasts - totaling up to 5 hours of response. You can listen to single mp3 file containing that response. Follow the link below to hear/download the mp3!

"Gay Christianity" Refuted!

COGIC Presiding Bishop and General Board Elaborate on Existing Same Sex Policy | CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST

Here is my denominations official statement on Same-Sex marriage:

Official Statement
of the
Church of God in Christ, Inc.

Regarding Same Sex Marriages and Civil Unions

 

The President’s position regarding “same-sex marriage” has set off a “firestorm,” unlike any other debate in our civil society, perhaps, since the civil rights unrest of the mid-20^th century.   The advocacy for same-sex marriage, while in conflict with our nation’s long-standing moral posture, has indeed, created opportunity for the Church to communicate our unequivocal position about God’s design and foundation for humanity, the biblical mandate for heterosexuality through the bonds of matrimony and, the centuries-old understanding of the only acceptable means of procreation, habitation, and the establishment of the family.

The President suggests same sex relationships and male-female relationships committed to by oath before God and/or witnesses, where formal documents are signed before a civil or ecclesiastical figure.  It further implies that both are equally good and valuable.  In addition to this, it suggests that both equally contribute to the good and advancement of a society.  From a fundamental view of scripture, the same word should not be used to describe both same sex and heterosexual relationships.

Fundamentally, traditionally, and historically, marriage has functioned to unite a man and women together in facing the challenges of life, to sanctify sexual involvement, to authorize the conception of children, provide an environment for the protection and development of offspring and to strengthen and sustain the family unit.  Historically, the sexual coming together of husband and wife produces children who are the fruit of both their bodies and are united by blood to their brothers and sisters.  This coming together of husband and wife is the means by which the world has been populated, and the human race sustained.

A husband, wife and children are the bedrock of a society which also mirrors the universal Church as a microcosm, or domestic church, out of which God’s values are modeled, nurtured, and disciplined.  This divinely-inspired family framework, pronounced in Old and New Testament scripture, is without compromise.  To tamper with the foundation is to disrupt the order God intended.  This order is the intended structure by which all humanity is expected to govern their lives.

The human body is designed by God as male and female to anatomically accommodate individuals of the opposite sex in the conception, bearing, and nurture of children; the human body is unquestionably designed to accommodate individuals of the opposite sex, not of the same sex.

The Holy Bible, which is the authoritative Word of God, clearly prohibits sexual relations between members of the same sex.  Though it does not isolate intercourse between individuals of the same sex as the only sin, it designates this and a series of other activities as sinful behavior from which the Christian is to abstain

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. NKJV (See also: Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; and 1 Timothy 1:8).

The Bible indicates that there is nothing that can excuse or eliminate the sinfulness of sexual involvement between individuals of the same sex.  Neither so called “marriage vows”, civil unions, nor homosexual drives or passions are recognized by the Bible as justifications or acceptable excuses or rationale for sexual acts between individuals of the same sex.  Sinful desires and inclinations must be resisted and overcome by the power of God in Christ Jesus, and by power of the Holy Spirit who strengthens our minds and our wills.

Our vocabularies are made up of thousands of words because there are so many distinctive entities and concepts to be referred to.  Each word designates a category of entities which are unique to that word.  Specific words are most useful when they reflect identical images, and when they do not create conflicting or unclear images in the mind of the speaker and the hearer.  The Bible defines marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman (Genesis 2:24; 1 Corinthians 7:2; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6).  To define marriage otherwise is to dilute and destroy its usefulness as a word which denotes what is highest and best about human society.

While we are committed to proclaim and support the tenants of the Bible, and also to persuade others to do so, we recognize that in a free and democratic society morality cannot be legislated.  We oppose violence and discrimination against individuals or groups because of sexual orientation. We do not feel that it is necessary to legalize same sex marriage to provide the civil benefits and civil rights to all regardless of sexual orientation.

 

We proclaim the value and worth of every human being regardless of sexual orientation.

But, we passionately and unapologetically, defend the right of faith communities to maintain the integrity of their message, mission and identity.  We welcome to the church all people who seek to serve and know God and His Word.

I agree.

COGIC Presiding Bishop and General Board Elaborate on Existing Same Sex Policy | CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST

President Obama Comes Out In Favor of Gay Marriage - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob

Okay, I disagree with our President, obviously. I think he is being sincere but I think the reasons he is making the announcement now are political but I think the man really wants to be re-elected - enough that he's willing to alienate people that society is telling us hold the minority position.





President Obama Comes Out In Favor of Gay Marriage - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob

Kirk Cameron Claims He Loves Everyone, Even If They're Going To Hell

Recently, Kirk Cameron has been heavily condemned for sticking to Biblical Christianity. I was amazed but not surprised about this article. It never fails. The minute you stand on what the Bible says, while speaking English, all of a sudden you are like speaking an entirely different language. For example this article says that Kirk said:

So today Kirk Cameron went on The Today Show to explain what he really meant by what he said. And all he really explained was that he’s still a homophobic asshole who can’t understand why people are mad that he thinks gay people are the worst. 

He never said that. It's like what he said went through a filter and out comes something unrecognizable. I think that some people will hear what a Christian says and then run it through a filter and their minds twist it into something else. For example Kirk is quoted in the article:

“Absolutely not, of course not. I love all people, I hate no one and, you know, when you take a subject and you reduce it to something like a four-second sound bite and a check mark on a ballot, I think that that’s inappropriate and insensitive…Nobody should mistreat anybody—homosexuals should not be mistreated, heterosexuals should not be mistreated, bisexuals should not be mistreated. All of us who really think deeply about social issues like gay marriage and abortion and homosexuality have convictions on issues, and and we all have our convictions formed by different things, and mine are formed by my faith, they’re informed by the word of God, and I found that to be an anchor for me, a compass and a guide for me."

The article's author seems to be fine and understands exactly what was said. But then Cameron is quoted:

“I was surprised, frankly, that people were surprised by the things I said. I have been consistent for 15 years as a Christian. I’m a Bible-believing Christian. What I would have thought was more newsworthy is if I had said something that contradicted the word of God, if I had contradicted my faith.” 

I see nothing wrong with this statement. It is consistent and clear. But the author of the article feels the need to re-contextualize and re-state the comment in their own words. Not surprisingly, it's completely different than what Kirk Cameron said and wrote:

Let’s translate that real fast to non-PR lingo:
“Guys, remember that time God called me and told me being gay was unnatural and sinful and dirty? Yeah that was years ago and I told ya’ll years ago. So I don’t get why you’re all acting surprised that I still think they’re ‘unnatural’ and gross. Wouldn’t it be weirder if I came on this show and said ‘Gays are awesome, rainbow flags for everyone!’ I’m not saying you should like stone them, but I am saying you should stay away so you don’t get dragged to hell with them. Okay?”
So yeah, Kirk Cameron still sucks. It’s a shame, you know? The Seavers seemed like such good parents!

This is completely not what he said. And I think that it should be remembered that as a Christian, Kirk Cameron believes, and as he has stated in the past, that all people are sinners and without Jesus' sacrifice and Resurrection we would all be going to hell no matter if your gay or not.

View the Video

Kirk Cameron Claims He Loves Everyone, Even If They're Going To Hell

Bank of America fires Dr. Frank Turek for his religious and political views « Wintery Knight

I learned of this article from Brian Auten on the Wintery Knight blog. Yes, standing for what you believe in may cost you something in tangible ways. Dr Turek is a scholar and a debater. He's written and spoken all over the world. It's kind of amazing to me how he could be hired for a job and no one knew what he believed. I don't think his views would make him unable to his job. It's real sad. I don't agree with Dr. Turek on everything but he does show how Christians should stand by what we believe.


Bank of America fires Dr. Frank Turek for his religious and political views « Wintery Knight

Petition Asks Bert And Ernie To Get Married On Sesame Street

I realize that a discussion of diversity in the media has been really in the news lately. I'm not surprised that such a petition has been brought up to get Bert and Ernie married to one another. But I still have to ask why? Can't two people be room mates in real-life and be friends and completely non-amorous? Why not? What message does it send if we say they can't - just to add depiction of a lifestyle on Sesame Street? I don't see how it could be a positive message at all. Sesame Street has already confirmed that the characters are not gay, why change it now?
Petition Asks Bert And Ernie To Get Married On Sesame Street

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Baratunde: Michelle Bachmann is running for president on a pro-slavery, anti-porn platform? | The Angry Black Woman

I have seen four blog posts today criticizing Michelle Bachmann for signing a document called "THE MARRIAGE VOW: A Declaration of Dependence Upon MARRIAGE and FAMiLY." It's a vow that political candidates for public office are being asked to sign to show that they are against pornography and the move to change the definition of "marriage" to describe anything other than a man and a woman. The thing that seems to have upset many people is the following:

Of course this new-found little-talked-about Black history tidbit is noted in a social-conservative pledge known as “The Marriage Vow – A Declaration of Dependence upon Marriage and Family”. You know, some form of Christian conservative gibberish like the following:

Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA’s first African-American President. (source)

I have read the document and I do not think it is pro-Slavery! I know however it's historically and culturally inaccurate. I think it is what is making people upset is that it appears to be saying that single-mothers are a modern thing and during slavery all black children had both parents. Anyone who knows history knows that in America slaves sometimes couldn't marry. Sometimes marriages were arranged despite what the man and/or women wanted. Sometimes families were split up - husbands, wives, and children sold away from one another like cattle. My own family experienced such horrors. Way to make a stable family. I understood the document as trying to say that there were more intact families in the black community than today. This isn't true. But it is true that across the board all races in the America have failed to maintain their families. In black families we can't place all the blame on slavery but it didn't help in any shape or form. I don't look at the document as saying things were better for black children during slavery. I think that they are trying to say that as bad as things were for us that things, they are worse because we have so many children growing up without both parents for no good reason - mostly because men will not be responsible for their children. I say that because my father broke that trend. I am taking care of my children, sticking to my wife, just as my father does. We can do better. We must do better. I think that the pledge is racist. Family problems in other races are not really singled out. Just the black community. As if they wanted to say "See, electing a black man didn't help you." Being a bad parent has nothing to do with race but the condition of your heart. The things that the pledge asks people to do to protect marriage are good ideas. I just which they had added to "check out your history before you speak about stuff you don't know anything about."



Baratunde: Michelle Bachmann is running for president on a pro-slavery, anti-porn platform? | The Angry Black Woman

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My Common Sense is Tingling: Marriage Equals… | The Angry Black Woman

I saw the above image with the following comments:

Every time I hear about how marriage has ALWAYS been between one man and one woman I want to go through the Bible and bring all this up. The infographic is very helpful.
Next I need a list of all the different kinds of marriages throughout history. Because not only have we had polygamous marriage for forever, but it hasn’t always been one man and several wives. Plus, there’s that whole penchant Egyptians had for marrying siblings (there is evidence that this wasn’t just a practice of the royals, either).
But for those who only believe in what the Bible tells them, this is the best weapon.

I do believe what the Bible says about marriage. Does the Bible tells us that  Levirate marriages, concubines, polygamy are prescribed as commandments or condoned?  No, the Bible merely tells us that they happened and we have no evidence that God was happy about it. As a matter of fact the times at which God actively and miraculously matched men and women together  (Adam/Eve and Isaac/Rebbecca. are examples) were single, male/female relationships. Other marriages being discussed were the choices of people. God didn't tell them to do that.Also in a Levirate marriage the woman who married her dead husband's closest living male relative it was a real marriage and she was supposed to be a full wife. Their children were to carry on the lineage of the dead husband and provide the woman the protection that a widow looses  in that culture.

Now it gets interesting. Because the Bible does mandate that if a man rapes a virgin he has to marry her. The Bible does not mandate that a woman must marry her rapist. The Bible also talks about how to marry a woman who has been captured in war. It seems crazy to our modern sensibilities. I mean why would a woman want to marry her rapist? We are repulsed by the idea because today women have options. In Ancient times, they had no options. A woman who had been raped would not have the protection of a husband. It was better for her in that time to be in a marriage where she could not be divorced. God gave them this command for the woman's protection. If one carefully studies the Hebrew you can see when it's talking about when a woman is being forced or when a woman is choosing to have sex. Both cases are discussed.

As for two of the relationships given in the chart, there are misstatements..

Genesis 16 is about Hagar being Sarah's slave and becoming Abraham's concubine.  The chart says that a wife's property becomes that of her husband's. I should hope so! And vice versa! By this time, Sarah and Abraham had been married for years! Being barren, Sarah thought she could help God out because they had been promised children. Sarah knew legally, the child Hagar would bear by Abraham would be his and Sarah's. That was the practice of the time and no where does God say "Good idea! All those who follow me should do the same thing!!!"

As for Exodus 21:4, the whole law is not given:

² “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. ³ If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. ⁴ If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
 ⁵ “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ ⁶ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.- Exodus 21:4-6

The law is not about mating slaves together like cattle. Thank America for that, not God. Instead the scripture it talking about giving permission to a slaves to marry.

So why did God allow people to mess up marriage so bad, if  monogamous, male-to-female marriages are better for us and His will?  Jesus answered this for us:

⁷ “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”  ⁸ Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Does anyone really think that these other aberrations of  what marriage should  be is any different than the evil of  divorce, made necessary by our sins? I don't. Why should we go and further mess up what marriage has become? Why make it worse? We should just go back to what God has called "Good", not to "I'll let you slide until I decide to judge you in hell".



Marriage Equals… | The Angry Black Woman

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What Will Happen If Gay Marriage Is Legalized?… | The Angry Black Woman

This argument for same-sex always amazes me. The argument makes no sense because no one rational thinks that it has anything to do with teaching children how to have gay sex in schools because how to have heterosexual sex is not taught in schools (nor should it be). It has nothing to do with terrorism. It has nothing to do with a world war. However the logical consequence is ignored! The argument is based on the idea that gay people should have the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couple in traditional marriage to the point that they want their legal social covenant to have the same weight as a man and woman. They want legitimacy. Thirty years ago it would have been an absurd thought to redefine "marriage" as anything different than what it has always been since the beginning. Here is the consequence we must consider. If its okay for two men or two women to get married, why is it not okay for one man and multiple women? What about one woman and multiple men? What about an adult and child  (as long as the child wants to)? What about a human and his pet? If "marriage" is fluid and whatever we agree that it is, how can we deny anyone the right to be with the one they love the way they want to be? Egalitarian as we are, how can we deny marriage  to include anyone's desires and predilections? Perverts and pedophiles are already making such arguments.  It's a slippery slope - one that our descendants will be paying for if we continue down this road to oblivion. Hell in a handbasket.

¹⁸ The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, ¹⁹ since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. ²⁰ For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
 ²¹ For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²² Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ²³ and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
 ²⁴ Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. ²⁵ They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
 ²⁶ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷ In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
 ²⁸ Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. ²⁹ They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, ³⁰ slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; ³¹ they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. ³² Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.- Romans 1:18-32

America, we deserve what is coming.

What Will Happen If Gay Marriage Is Legalized?… | The Angry Black Woman

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Same Sex Marriage Is Destroying Marriage…… | The Angry Black Woman

I agree that Charlie Sheen, Kelsey Grammer, Larry King, Britney Spears, Jesse Jams, and Tiger Woods profane and denigrate marriage. They and all who fail to live up to the responsibilities of their marriages should be forced to give an account and held responsible. They certainly fail to meet the standard. However, just because we, as a society, have failed does that mean we should lower the bar? Is the standard so high that people can't stay committed to their spouses? I don't think so. So for what reason, and I have never seen a good reason for doing it, is there for changing the definition of a "marriage"? And further where do we stop? Is it okay to marry a sibling? Multiple people simultaneously? Pets? Children? If not why not? What is to keep "marriage" to be redefined by who ever has enough money and political power? Nothing.
 
Same Sex Marriage Is Destroying Marriage…… | The Angry Black Woman

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Complete Video of Brown/Smaw Debate on Same-Sex Marriage at UCF - Voice of Revolution

 This was a very good Debate, especially juxtaposed against a debate Dr Walter Martin did on television back in the early 1980's. Society has gotten worse. Ignoring Smaw's crudeness and ill-preparedness on one side, the issues and arguments have not changed. Back then people were more willing tom stand with what the Bible says. Today, as this debate shows, people want to live their own way and willing to throw out common sense to do it.  I posed the Martin debate from Mariano Grinbank in the following post, just follow the link.

Complete Video of Brown/Smaw Debate on Same-Sex Marriage at UCF - Voice of Revolution

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