Thinking God's Thoughts: The Viral Representative's Argument for Homosexual Marriage

Brennon posted comments on the following video from a speech by Minnesota Representative Steve Simon.




I agree with Brennon's comments. Dr. James White agrees with Brennon also.



Thinking God's Thoughts: The Viral Representative's Argument for Homosexual Marriage

Yesterday on the Dividing Line: Analysis of Minnesota Representative's Comments

FistBump of the Day to "Thinking God's Thoughts"

I really enjoy reading Brennon's blog and his Facebook quote. I really wanted to call attention to a couple of things he posted today.

On the origin of morality

Many atheists, when trying to ground moral values, appeal to something like human well being as a guide for morality. This seems to be patently insufficient of a ground for morals, because it itself is simply a moral judgment. It is good to promote human well being and bad to stifle it is a moral value itself, and therefore can't be the ground of moral values. As I said to one commenter on Sam Harris' attempt to use this as a ground, "Saying that well-being of some sort is good is simply another moral claim, so it hasn't reached any sort of ontological base at all. If this is Harris' base, then he seems to have stopped short of a true ground for morality and settled for a branch. [In other words] you can't say that a moral value is itself the ground of moral value."

This is why most attempts at ethics today are silly little exercises in futility.

On Science and Teleology

So I'm picking on my ethics teacher again, which may turn into quite a habit for the next 12 weeks or so. This statement (the title of this post) was one of the supposed problems with Thomas Aquinas' natural law theory. My teacher really didn't argue for this assertion. How has Science done this?

Is it because it can now explain how things work? What does that have to do with whether they have an end they were designed for?

It seems to me that this is just an assumption that flows from, at least, methodological naturalism. But even if you accept that science can't access the reason for which something was created, but can only tell us how it was created/works, it certainly doesn't follow that it wasn't created for some reason.

Not to mention that this seems to be patently untrue anyway. Certain fields of science seem to make their living on detecting teleology. Archaeologists do this often.

I admit that I don't agree with everything he writes but I really like these posts. Thanks, Brennon! All I can say is "Amen and amen."

Thinking God's Thoughts: Settling for a Branch
Thinking God's Thoughts: Modern Science Rejects Teleology

Thinking God's Thoughts: Yeah, I went there

Brennon, I'll go there along side you. I wanna know what the answer is but I think I already know what the answer is: They have no good arguments. They have things they believe is true despite any contrary evidence.

Thinking God's Thoughts: Yeah, I went there

Thinking God's Thoughts: Is Christianity 7 Times Incoherent?

I thought that this post from Brennon is awesome. In a relatively short post he managed to demolish seven objections to Christianity based around the charge against Christianity that is inconsistent and coherent. Brennon makes really good points and I would tend to think that if one honestly considers them, one must come to the conclusion that they are unassailable.

Thinking God's Thoughts: Is Christianity 7 Times Incoherent?

Related articles

• A neutral worldview? (barefootbum.blogspot.com)
• Why do some religions worship idols (wiki.answers.com)

Thinking God's Thoughts: MR Dawkins Doesn't Listen--Or Something

Thanks to Brennon for posting this.






Thinking God's Thoughts: MR Dawkins Doesn't Listen--Or Something

Thinking God's Thoughts: More William Lane Craig Awesomeness on the Incarnation

I thank Brennon for posting this video of William Lane Craig discussing the incarnation of Jesus on his blog. I agree with Dr. Craig. Jesus, being God, can do anything - including choosing to not know certain information while he "tabernacled among us". (John 1:14)




Thinking God's Thoughts: More William Lane Craig Awesomeness on the Incarnation

Fistbump of the Day #12 - Brennon's Thoughts: Response to Common Sense Atheism's The Science of Morality

Brennon handled a failed attempt to explain the origins of Morality very well. I think he is 100% correct in his analysis. Thanks for another great post!

Brennon's Thoughts: Response to Common Sense Atheism's The Science of Morality

Fistbump Quote of the Day #4:Brennon's Thoughts: How to Define Atheism

Brennon has recently post a great article that takes on the way Atheists try to define atheism in such a way to put the burden of proof on the theists. They think they can hide behind semantics and not really take a position...they think they are being logically sound. I've posted on this subject myself but I loved the way Brennon wrote his response. Today's Fistbump goes to him.

So, if this is what atheism actually is, then more power to them. Atheists just lack belief in God. Great. Apparently they lack the testicular fortitude to make up their mind about whether He actually does exist as well.

I agree with Brennon. What I want to know in judgment day when people stand before God to give an account for the things they have said, done, and thought do they really think that this argument will fly? It won't.

Brennon's Thoughts: How to Define Atheism

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 7

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna  I know what the Bible says. Here is part 7 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that sin is not from God.. I don't think that there has ever been a Christian who would try to argue that God is responsible for our sins.


Verses showing sin is not from God

• Jeremiah 7:24

 ²⁴ But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.

This true of every single human being! We have all done this. It's describing the state of men. If anything
I view the passage teaching about the "Total Depravity" of humanity.

• James 1:13-15

  ¹³When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; ¹⁴but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. ¹⁵Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

I totally agree. Neither Total Depravity nor Determinism lays the blame for sin at the feet of God. We are responsible for our sins and following the evil inclinations of our own hearts. 

• 1 John 2:16

¹⁶For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.

Amen. Total agreement. I don't think that these verses refute Reformed theology at all.  Reformed Theologians do not argue that the origin of  a man's sin comes from God. Rather it is our salvation that totally comes from God. The sin part - the need for that salvation - is because of what we are. We own that. I think most Christians agree that God can use the consequences of our sins to accomplish his purposes given:



Remember what Joseph told his brothers who some 30 years earlier sold him into slavery:

¹⁹ But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? ²⁰ You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. ²¹ So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them.  - Genesis 50:19-21

What about Romans 8:28-29

 ²⁸And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. ²⁹For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. - Romans 8:28-29

However this does not mean that God forces anyone to do evil. We know that God doesn't force people to do evil. I'd argue that on our own evil is all we are capable of. When we do a good, selfless thing - believers and non-believers alike - it is because of God's grace. 

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 6

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna know what the Bible says. Here is part 1 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that God gives us prevenient grace."Prevenient grace" means grace that is equally applied to the hearts and minds of everyone given that they have enough grace to   come to a decision to give their hearts to Christ.



Verses demonstrating God's prevenient grace

• Jeremiah 31:3

 ³ The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying:
       "I have loved you with an everlasting love;
       I have drawn you with loving-kindness.

I think this would work it the passage was directed to every human being. It wasn't. The context is to the people of God in general, to the people of Judah in particular.

• John 16:7-11

 ⁷But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. ⁸When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt^[a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: ⁹in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; ¹⁰in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; ¹¹and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Again Jesus was not referring to all people at all times. 

• Romans 2:4 - It is God's grace that leads us to repentance.

⁴Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

God's grace does lead us to repentance and this is a statement that can be applied to everyone. But the chapter is talking about general revelation not special revelation.

• Romans 10:14-17 - One must hear God's word to come to faith.

 ¹⁴How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ¹⁵And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
 ¹⁶But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" ¹⁷Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

I agree that God's word goes to all people. And its through that that some us are saved. But as the parable of sower Jesus gave sometimes that seed does not fall on good ground.

• Titus 2:11 - God's grace leads to repentance.

 ¹¹For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

The NIV says the grace appeared not given to all men. I believe the passage is referring to saving grace and if everyone was give that everyone would be saved.

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know

Brennon's Thoughts: William Lane Craig Explains the Premises of the Ontological Argument

Image via Wikipedia

Brennon has posted a video in which William Lane Craig explains why the Ontological Argument has good premises.




Brennon's Thoughts: William Lane Craig Explains the Premises of the Ontological Argument

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 5

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna know what the Bible says. Here is part 5 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that humans have libertarian free will.
Verses that show man has libertarian free will

• Free will offering verses
• Exodus 35:29; 36:3 
• Leviticus 7:16; 22:18, 21, 23; 23:38 
• Numbers 15:3; 29:39

• Deuteronomy 12:6, 17; 16:10
• 2 Chronicles 31:14; 35:8
• Ezra 1:4, 6; 3:5; 7:16; 8:28
• Psalm 119:108
• Ezekiel 46:12
• Amos 4:5

I don't see how any of the scriptures above teaches Libertarian Free will. I don't think most Calvinists deny that people have a will of their own. I think the problem is that our will does not  trump God's will.

• Isaiah 1:19-20 - Can choose to be obedient or rebel.

 ¹⁹ If you are willing and obedient,
       you will eat the best from the land;
 ²⁰ but if you resist and rebel,
       you will be devoured by the sword."
       For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

 Again...the passage does not say that we can choose to willing on our own.  It tells us what happens when we become willing aand what happens if we continue resisting and rebelling.

• Ezekiel 33:11 - Have the ability to choose from different options.

 ¹¹ Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'

God in his sovereignty give us the options we have.  This does not contradict the scriptures that cover our depravity and inability to come to God on our own. It is more about the alternatives that ever human being will be experiencing. It does not suggest to me that you have the ability to make up your own mind to change.

• Luke 7:30 - Pharisees rejected what God wanted for them.

 ³⁰But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

As well as other scriptures point to that God does not want to destroy us. However I don't think this means that God's will can be frustrated. How can he be sovereign if he can decree something and it does not happen? He can't. 

• John 7:17 - A person must want to do what God is giving them the grace to do. This verse shows that God allows things He doesn't want to happen.

¹⁷If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

I have to look at this in contest of John 7 and 8. In that contest you can't choose to do God' will unless the father draws you.

• 1 Corinthians 7:37 - Power over own will--not necessitated--that's the definition of LFW.

 ³⁷But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing.

 Again, i don't think anyone would argue that God never allows you to make decisions without his influence,  He does. That's how we sin. I just have a problem with assuming that God cannot or does not supersede human will or opinion when He wants to because He clearly does that in scripture.

• 1 Corinthians 10:13

 ¹³No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

 This example verse speaks against the idea of God not influencing our thinking or will. If God is going to prevent you from being tempted beyond what you can say "No" to, then that means he has to manipulating events around you and quite possibly what you want to do.



I've got to admit. that unless God moves on your heart and changes your obstinate and stubborn heart that loves your sin, you will never get saved. Hell-bound rebellious sinner is the default state for everyone. We are slaves to sin without any hope of being free if God does not help us.

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know

Brennon's Thoughts: Questions for Anti-Molinist Inerrantists

Brennon has asked some great questions on his blog that he believes Molinism answers, but God's decrees does not. My comments are in red.

How do you explain how God knew the two divergent paths that God foresaw if Zedekiah either chose to surrender to the king of Babylon or not (Jeremiah 38:17-18)? Assuming this was a free choice, God told Jeremiah to tell Zedekiah that if he chose to submit to Babylon, he, his city, and his family would all live. But God also foresaw the other possibility; what would happen if Zedekiah did not surrender, namely his death and his city's destruction. God obviously knew what would happen, and which choice Zedekiah would make. But God also knew what would happen if Zedekiah made the other choice.

I agree God knows each and every possibility and probability. God knew what Zedekiah would not surrender. I don't really see how that supports Molinism.  I  mean in order for everything that plays out the way that it did, the Babylonians had to destroy Jerusalem. Don't forget the fall of Jerusalem was prophesied many times before this point. I'm not saying that Zedekiah did not do what he himself wanted to do, but what I am saying that it's not a surprise because God already called this one centuries before through several prophets.  Check out Habakkuk 1 which some scholars date to the late 7th century BC and considering that Zedekiah made this decision around 586 BC - about 100 years later. Should not be a shock or a surprise.

How did Jesus know what Sodom would have done IF His miracles had been performed there in Matthew 11:23?

Jesus knew because Jesus is God and God knows everything.  Again I don't see how that supports Molinism.  I think a more important question that if God knew Sodom would have repented if  Jesus had performed his miracles, then why didn't God do that and prevent destroying them? The answer is that it was part of the overall plan God has. Where all things works together for them that love God and are called according to God's purpose (Romans 8:28-29) . God's will and purpose and ours. 

How did Jesus know what would happen if the disciples cast their net to the opposite side of their boat (John 21:6)?

Again Jesus knows everything. The question this begs is. Were the fish on the opposite side of the Boat because they just happened to be there or were they there because God told them to be there?  I don't know. In such a situation, maybe it doesn't matter.  I'd go the rout of decree because of all the little things that had to line up for those fish to be there. The weather, the currents, the time of day, the tides (gravitational forces on the water from the moon, sun, and other heavenly bodies), the life interactions and histories of each and every fish and their parents going back to the days of creation - had to line up just right for those fish to be on the side of the boat Jesus told them to throw their nets to. Not to mention all the factors I left out.  Why would we not serve a God like that?

Oh, and those of you who reject Molinism because of James White's weak polemic, you really need to repudiate that ridiculous picture he has floating around the web with Craig and the Pope. That's a pretty blatant genetic fallacy if I ever saw one.

I know when I saw that graphic Brennon mentioned I re-posted it myself. I didn't really stop to think that it might offend some people. If it did, I'm sorry. However, i think it illustrates some key points.

1. In his debate with Christopher Hitchens, William Lane Craig said Calvinism was a false Christianity.  I don't think that is true at all. No more than calling Jacob Arminius a heretic and claiming anyone who agree with him as bing hell-bound.

2. Molina came up with Molinism because he wanted to give an answer against the Reformers who began preaching that God was in complete control of everything regardless of what our free will says. Molina was a Roman Catholic clergyman and that was his job - come up with a counter answer. From what I can tell only Dr. William Lane Craig reaslly expounds on his ideas today and it's not popular in Roman Catholicism..

3. Picturing Craig with the Pope is not a genetic fallacy given that that Molinism is Roman Catholic invention and Craig has embraced the approach of magnifying the commonalities among Christians and downplaying the things we disagree on - y'know like the sinlessness of Mary and her being a Co-Redeemer with Christ.  Not all Roman Catholics hold these ideas, but the Pope does. Give the turns that WLC have made (not neccessarily sinful or bad) I see every reason to make the tie with the Roman Catholic Church.

Brennon's Thoughts: Questions for Anti-Molinist Inerrantists

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 4

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna know what the Bible says. Here is part 4 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that we must remain in Christ to remain secure.  How does the Bible say we remain in Christ? We know and I think all Christians agrees that there is no security outside of Christ. How does one get out of Christ? One doesn't.


Verses that show we must remain in Christ to be secure:

• Romans 11:17-24

 ¹⁷If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, ¹⁸do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. ¹⁹You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." ²⁰Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. ²¹For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
 ²²Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. ²³And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ²⁴After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

No where in the passage does the Paul tells us that it is by our work  that we are grafted in.  God grafts us in. God cuts off. God is clearly saying that. The passage is not telling us how we get out of  Christ of our own choice any more than we can get into Christ.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2

 ²By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

 I don't think that the passage is at all telling us how people fall off. It is telling us that we must hold firm to the truth and I don't see how it is saying that we can walk away from Jesus. Only if we do we not anything we do prior is pointless.

• Ephesians 5:3-7

 ³But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. ⁴Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. ⁵For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.^{[a] 6}Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. ⁷Therefore do not be partners with them.

This passage is telling us if we live such evil lives, we show that we are not in Christ, not that you can be once in christ and then these actions puts you out.

• Colossians 1:21-23

 ²¹Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of^[a] your evil behavior. ²²But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— ²³if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Paul is saying that if you continues in faith, you know that Jesus reconciled you. It's not saying that it is dependent on us.

• 2 Peter 1:10

¹⁰Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,

 Peter is not saying that that we elect ourselves by obeying what we know we ought to do. Peter is saying that we know our election is true by obeying. Everyone is fallen, but thanks to Jesus, not us, we don't have to stay there.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22

²⁰If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. ²¹It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. ²²Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 

This passage is one of those I have actually seen lived out. I've seen people who for a time show all the signs of true repentance, even being delivered miraculously, and then leave Christianity. This passage is dealing with apostasy. I have also seen people leave the church and come back. The passage is not telling us that these people were really regenerated or born-again. 

• Hebrews 6:4-6

 ⁴It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, ⁵who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, ⁶if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 Is the passage saying that it's impossible for those who have saved to fall away or that's impossible for apostates to be brought back?  I think that it is not talking about born-again salvation. Again people get "saved" and go back out to the world all the time. They hear and agree with the Gospel and then when things get hard or the euphoria wears off they go back to being who they are.  There is no transformation.  No real change. I think the writer of Hebrews is not suggesting that it's possible for a believer to leave Jesus, only why it's impossible for a born-again Christian to walk away from God. It seem mind boggling for people to know first-hand what God is offering them and then refuse it. However people do.

• Hebrews 10:26

 ¹⁹Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, ²⁰by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, ²¹and since we have a great priest over the house of God, ²²let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. ²³Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. ²⁴And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. ²⁵Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
 ²⁶If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, ²⁷but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. ²⁸Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. ²⁹How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? ³⁰For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." ³¹It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Let's look at verse 26 in context. of verses 19-31 as a whole. A direct parallel is made with the blood sacrifices of the Old Testament and  we are told that if we go on sinning there can be no other sacrifice because Jesus is the last one. I think the passage is not talking about unbelievers insulting the Spirit because this is something a born-again person would not do.

• James 1:12; 5:19-20

 ¹²Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

What if a man does not persevere? He will not receive the crown of life God promised - showing that the man does not love God. If a man does not love God he can't be saved. 

¹⁹My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, ²⁰remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Verse 20 is talking about all repentant sinners not just those who wander away. Again I don't think anyone would argue that sometimes Christians wander away just like wayward sheep. It's not addressing those who leave and never come back. The language suggests a temporary scenario.

There is no argument that we must remain in Jesus to know our salvation is secure. We must work at growing  and putting on our full armor. We must deny ourselves.  Beat our wills to submission to Christ. For a lot of people, saying that we are eternally secure means that we can do whatever we want and don't have to do anything to be saved.  I think that this is a huge problem.. No where does the Bible say that. There is much required of us not for salvation be because we are saved.

⁸For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— ⁹not by works, so that no one can boast. ¹⁰For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-10

Good works should follow salvation. God wants us to be busy but he also wants us to be assured that He's is in control and we don't have to worry about being lost just concern ourselves with living for Him.

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. - John 17:12

Yes, Jesus was talking about the 12 in context, but why would it not apply to us today? I  find much assurance in the following passages I will end with.

³⁷No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. ³⁸For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, ³⁹neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:37-39

⁴In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy ⁵because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, ⁶being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. - Philippians 1:4-6

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know

Brennon's Thoughts: See, I Can Change My Mind; or Accepting Molinism

My brother-in-Christ, Brennon, recently posted an article on his blog about why he is now accepting Molinism. I still have a great deal of problems with this attempt at reconciling Human Free Will with God's Sovereign Will and decrees. Brennon wrote:

So, with this in mind, it is easy to see how God could very easily providentially guide creation to His ends and still deal with free creatures. Take, for instance, the crucifixion. Peter says in Acts that Jesus was "delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death" (Acts 2:23). Well we know that God Himself didn't cause the pharisees to be godless. Rather, God knew what kind of godless men the pharisees would be, and He knew that if they were put in the position they were in, they would act to murder Jesus. Thereby, God was able to decree that Christ would be crucified to accomplish His justice, and was able to use the freely chosen sinful actions of evil men to accomplish this.

My problem with example is the full credit is given to God for Jesus' sacrifice - including the suffering not just the glorious ending.

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. - Isaiah 53:10

Another important verse is regarding Judas. Jesus knew Judas was a goner when Jesus selected him.

¹²While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. - John 17:12

Given these facts and others. I am unable to understand how we can infer that God decrees outcomes without also having a hand in ordaining means. Let me be clear, I'm not saying that God forces or tempts anyone to do evil. God does allow people to do evil things and uses the outcome to get good out of it. Jesus' crucifixion is indeed of an example that God does take the evil that men desire to do and turns it to ultimate good. However there are times when God does stop people from sinning. This is where Middle Knowledge (Molinism) falls apart. God tells us that at times what man means for evil, God means for good.

¹⁵ When Joseph's brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, "What if Joseph holds a grudge against us and pays us back for all the wrongs we did to him?" ¹⁶ So they sent word to Joseph, saying, "Your father left these instructions before he died: ¹⁷ 'This is what you are to say to Joseph: I ask you to forgive your brothers the sins and the wrongs they committed in treating you so badly.' Now please forgive the sins of the servants of the God of your father." When their message came to him, Joseph wept.
 ¹⁸ His brothers then came and threw themselves down before him. "We are your slaves," they said.
 ¹⁹ But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? ²⁰ You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. ²¹ So then, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them. - Genesis 50:15-21

Joseph recognized that his brothers were not looking out for his best interest but intended for Joseph to suffer but God intended Joseph's suffering to ultimately save lives and to fulfill the promises made to His great-grandfather Abraham. Does this get Joseph's brothers off the hook for their sin. No. But Jesus does.

These are a few reasons why I think Molinism fails to explain Human will and God's sovereignty. I realize that Dr. William Lane Craig believes that Molinisim is a great tool understand the Bible and Philosophy but I don't think he is right in this although I admire the man for many other reasons. I've been writing several posts on this subject based on the work of William Lane Craig, James White,  and TurretinFan. The posts are regarding  Middle Knowlege (Molinism), Free Will, and God's Sovereignty.  Feel free to check out the past articles. And check out the additional link from James White: Craig vs. Hitchens at Biola Reviewed on the Dividing Line (Update!) This is a link to one of Dr. White's webcasts in which he discusses William Lane Craig's debate against Christopher Hitchen and Dr. Craig describes Calvinism as a "false Christian denomination." And I'm including it here because it points to why Dr. Craig may feel Molinism is a better explanation.

Brennon's Thoughts: See, I Can Change My Mind; or Accepting Molinism

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 3

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna know what the Bible says. Here is part 3 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that God's grace is resistible. 


Verses that show grace is resistible:

• Jeremiah 7:24

²⁴ But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.

Many Christians talk about "common" grace. This describes the grace that every human being receives from God.  For example, Gravity so that we don't go flying off the earth. However I think this portion of the post is regarding the grace that leads to salvation. The grace of understanding and recognizing your own sin and need for salvation and the desire to please God in gratitude for forgiveness.  From this point of view..everyone begins at the point of resisting this idea. We are aren't even capable of grasping it without God's grace.  IT's not like everyone starts at a neutral position and then after making a decision to follow or not follow Christ after hearing the gospel they either accept or resist the Gospel.  Resisting is the default.  Therefore I think that this verse is not describing resisting grace but describing the position of every sinner.

• Luke 7:30 

²⁹(All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. ³⁰But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)   - Luke 7:29-30

Does it say that Pharisees and law experts rejected God's grace? No. They rejected God's purpose for them.  Again I must ask what else would you expect unregenerate sinners to do?

• Acts 7:51 - Blatant resistance of the Holy Spirit. It is proper to infer that if they didn't resist, they would have been led to repentance.

 ⁵¹"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Is rejecting the Holy Spirit the same as rejecting grace? No, I don't think so. And I don't think the inference is is that they could have chosen on their own not resist. Again John 6:44 tells us that without the Father drawing us to Christ we are unable to go to him.

• Romans 10:16 - Not all who hear will believe.

 ¹⁶But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"

Just because some who hear will and do reject the Gospel that does not mean that they are rejecting grace. Given that no one can can accept the Gospel without grace it stands to reason that if they reject the Gospel they didn't have the necessary grace in the first place.

• 2 Corinthians 6:1 - One can receive God's grace, yet not appropriate it in their lives.

¹As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain. ²For he says,
   "In the time of my favor I heard you,
      and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. - 2 Corinthians 6:1-2

What does Paul mean? He is addressing fellow workers and warning that you can be used to reconcile others to God (chapter 5) but don't miss out yourself. I do not see how this is saying that grace can be rejected or resisted because for such a one, salvific grace isn't applicable.

I think that this brings up a very important point. What is grace? Grace is God's unmerited favor. It is God gifting you with thing(s) you do not deserve. It is unearned. It's something God does because God wants to do it. It can't be duplicated or demanded or traded. If you don't earn something how can it be rejected?  For that matter how do you reject something that has no place in you. It never belonged to you. Grace is a gift. Grace is a God-given gift that can't be recognized apart from the Holy Spirit. A sinner can't reject something he/she doesn't recognize that exist. He/She must reject it.  And without the Holy Spirit we can't see it or even begin comprehend anything about it.  The Old Testament gives a brilliant illustration of just how much a radical change it is for a human being to be in a position to receive grace.

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: - Ezekiel 11:19

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. - Ezekiel 36:26

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know Part 2

Brennon has posted a great list of scriptures that support Arminianism. I'm not certain that they support the Arminian position. Rather than try to responding to them all at once, I will break them down into several posts based on how the list is presented.This topic interests me because I really wanna know what the Bible says. Here is part 2 regarding the idea that Bible teaches that atonement is available for all.


Verses that show the atonement is available for all:

• Isaiah 53:6 - The iniquity of us all was put on Christ.

       We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
       each of us has turned to his own way;
       and the LORD has laid on him
       the iniquity of us all.

I think without question, everyone has gone astray. This agrees with other scriptures that tells us about Jesus died for all.

• Matthew 11:28-30 - Any who some to Christ are welcome.

²⁸"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. ²⁹Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ³⁰For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The passage indeed tells us that all who come to Jesus are welcome but it does not tell us anyone can come when they get ready.

• Matthew 18:14 - The Father does not wish that any should perish (anti predestined-reprobation).

 ¹⁰"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
 ¹²"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? ¹³And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. ¹⁴In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost. - Matthew 18:10-14

I think we need to look at the context of verse 14. Who are the Father's little one? Everyone?  Nope. Jesus is talking about the sheep and we know that not everyone is the sheep. I do agree that predestined re-probation is not supportable because re-probation is default. Before one knows they are elected to salvation, they are going to hell whether they know it or not. God knows they are elect, but they don't.

• John 1:7 - Jesus intended for all, wants all to believe.

Oops, this passage is not regarding Jesus himself:

 ⁶There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. ⁷He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. ⁸He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. ⁹The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. - John 1:6-8

The passage is about John the Baptist and does not talk about Jesus' intention or desire. The point to John the Baptist was to point the way to Christ.

• John 1:29

²⁹The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! ³⁰This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' ³¹I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel." - John 1:29-30

I don't see how John the Baptist was saying that atonement was available for all considering that not everyone is going to get it it. It says to me that it's only through the Lamb of God - Jesus  -  that sin is done away with. I do not see this as a promise that Jesus substitutionally paid for the sins of everyone who has ever lived.

• John 3:16-17

¹⁶"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Again God is the actor. He does it. He sets it in motion. Jesus is not suggesting that those who believe believe because of their own volition. Further, Jesus did not need to condemn the world because it's in the crapper whether or not He came.  Jesus came to fix it not make it worse - and He has.

• John 6:33, 51

³³For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

⁵¹I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Jesus does not suggest that the eating of the bread He gives is something that people can eat on their own. Jesus tells us what happens when we take the bread.

• John 12:47

⁴⁷"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. ⁴⁸There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. -  John 12:47-48

Jesus is not saying that those who reject His words will not be judged for it. They will be.

• Romans 3:23-24 - All have sinned and all have access to justification in Christ Jesus.

 ²¹But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. ²²This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, ²³for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ²⁴and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. ²⁵God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— ²⁶he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
 ²⁷Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. ²⁸For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. ²⁹Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, ³⁰since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. ³¹Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. - Romans 3:23-30

I don't see how Paul is making the argument that everyone is justified in Christ. He is explaining how the atonement justifies us.

• Romans 5:6 - Christ died for the ungodly. Since all are ungodly, Christ died for all.

⁶You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. ⁷Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. ⁸But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
 ⁹Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! ¹⁰For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! ¹¹Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Romans 5:6-11

Paul affirms that  all have sinned but he does say that Christ died for all. :Look at verse 8 and 9 and 10. We are reconciled to God through the death of Jesus. Christ died for us true.. and we are all sinners and ungodly. Yet Paul did not say Jesus died for all. He died for us. Who is us? We - those who believe in Christ.

• Romans 5:15 - Since sin spread to all, Christ's atonement is meant for all.

 ¹⁵But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Christ's atonement is a gift. A gift can't be earned or obligated only received. And it's not a gift to all but to many.

• Romans 10:13 - Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

¹³for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 Agreed, but it does not say that everyone has the ability or the opportunity to call on the Lord. It's a gift.

• 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 - All died, yet Christ died for all.

¹⁴For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. ¹⁵And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Does Christ's love compels everyone? Nope. Was Paul telling us that all no longer live for themselves or only for those whom Christ died for? I don't think so. I don't see how "all" mean every human being in this context.

• 1 Timothy 2:3-6 - God desires all men to be saved, and gave Himself for all

¹I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— ²for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. ³This is good, and pleases God our Savior, ⁴who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. ⁵For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ⁶who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. - 1 Timothy 2:3-6

It is impossible to understand verse 3-6 without 1 -3. The "This" that pleases God is that we make prayer and intercession for everyone and living lives characterized by holiness and godliness.While God wants all men to be saved because he gave us one mediator - one sacrifice. I think that this this is the strongest verse against limited atonement. I'm not to comfortable saying that Paul is referring to only :"all kinds of men" not what it says. I'm planning to do more study on this but I don't think we can use it to say that everyone has equal opportunity and ability. Indisputably it is a gift of God.

• 1 Timothy 4:10

⁸For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
 ⁹This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance ¹⁰(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.- 1 Timothy 4:8-10

Jesus is the hope of all men because He is the only hope we have. It seems to me Paul is highlighting that the salvation is actualized in only those who believe. It's not saying that believers believe as an act of their own will aside from God drawing them.

• Titus 2:11 - God's necessary grace that leads to repentance appears to all.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

I think this verse goes back to the fact that no one has an excuse for not accepting God's grace because it is being plainly presented.

• Hebrews 2:9 - Jesus tasted death for everyone.

 ⁵It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. ⁶But there is a place where someone has testified:
   "What is man that you are mindful of him,
      the son of man that you care for him?
 ⁷You made him a little lower than the angels;
      you crowned him with glory and honor
    ⁸ and put everything under his feet." 
    In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. ⁹But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
 ¹⁰In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. ¹¹Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.- Hebrews 2:5-11

The passage does not say that everyone shares in the atonement of  Jesus' death. Look at verse 10. The author says that "many" not "all" sons are brought to glory.  

• Hebrews 10:10 - Christ offered once for all.

⁸First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). ⁹Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. ¹⁰And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.  - Hebrews 10:8-10

Is the writer of Hebrews saying that Jesus' sacrifice was once for all people or once for all time? I'd say once for all time because the letter then goes on and draws a parallel between Jesus' office as high priest and the high priests of the Levitical priesthood who made sacrifices for the whole people of Israel. In those days the sacrifices weren't for the sins of the whole world but only for Israel - God's people. Why would the ultimate and best sacrifice also not be for only the people of God?

• 2 Peter 3:9

⁹The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The Greek term from which "wanting" is translated comes from the word "Boulemai" and that term shows desire but not follow through. It's passive. In effect, God does not want anyone to perish but He isn't going to force it or make it happen. Peter is agreeing with Paul who wrote in Romans 8 that the whole of creation is waiting for the sons of God to be revealed.  This is something God does.

• 1 John 4:14

¹⁴And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

The verse does not say that the whole world is saved it's saying that no one will be saved apart from the Son.

• 1 John 2:2 - Jesus is the propitiation, not just for believers, but for the whole world.

¹My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. ²He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for  the sins of the whole world.

Admittedly here is another verse that seems to be against Limited atonement and will require more study on my part. If Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the whole world then he took away the sin of the whole world also. I don't believe the Bible teaches that Jesus just makes up savable. I believe that his sacrifice literally saves us on an individual level. This verse seems to be saying that this is true for the whole world. Yet there is something going on because we know that some of the world will be going to hell. This isn't a contradiction just proof that I don't understand everything.

• John 4:42

  ⁴²They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

The Samaritans in that town understood that Jesus is the savior of the world in that there is no salvation apart from him not that everyone is justified and reconciled apart from faith.

• Revelation 22:17

 ¹⁷The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

 One of my favorite scriptures. Due to Romans 8:5-8

 ⁵Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. ⁶The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; ⁷the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. ⁸Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 

I have to conclude that no one apart from God can come to Jesus. I mean without God revealing to you that you are sinful, needy, and thirsty that you even know you need a savior. A mind controlled by a sinful nature is unable to process that or even agree. 

Additionally, I think there are two scriptures the shed even more light on atonement.

⁸For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— ⁹not by works, so that no one can boast. ¹⁰For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-10

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23

These passages as wells as other underscores that salvation is a gift - not something to be earned - or obligated. The atonement was enough to save every human being ever but salvation itself is something for which we can only thank God for.

Brennon's Thoughts: Verses All Arminians Should Know