'How It Should Have Ended' Examines 'The Avengers' Movie [Video] - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews
Thursday, May 31, 2012
'How It Should Have Ended' Examines 'The Avengers' Movie [Video] - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews
'How It Should Have Ended' Examines 'The Avengers' Movie [Video] - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews
Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Hulk Trashes Loki [Animated GIF]
Everyone! I've done my best not to spoil the Avengers movie for anyone who has yet to see it. But lo it has been almost a few month but if you have not seen it, here is one of many reasons to go see it!!!
'Nuff Said!
Hulk Trashes Loki [Animated GIF]
'Nuff Said!
Hulk Trashes Loki [Animated GIF]
8 Famous Computers with a Pathetic Amount of Power - Topless Robot
8 Famous Computers with a Pathetic Amount of Power - Topless Robot
Tuesday, May 29, 2012
Can Anyone Play Dr. Bruce Banner? (Editorial)
Bruce Banner is not like Tony Stark, Thor, or Steve Rogers. Each one of the aforementioned characters are inseparable from their super hero identities. As Tony Stark said “I am Iron Man”. So because of this, the actor portraying each one these characters has a lot to do with the personality of that character. I firmly believe that no one can be Tony Stark other than RDJ. RDJ has infused his motor mouth wit coupled with his own dark history of drinking into a character that demands nothing less and has thereby branded his own personal stamp of ownership into the Iron Man armor. Chris Hemsworth doesn’t just look the part of Thor but has cemented a real sense of authority and honor into the god of thunder. We were all leery of Chris Evans as Captain America given his track record with other CBM’s but he managed to hit it out of the park by imbuing Steve Rogers with perseverance, selflessness, and tough as nails innocence. As for Bruce Banner, he’s no Dos Equis man. Can you honestly say that anything remarkable stood out about him between the 3 different actors that played him? I don’t think you can and I think that’s the way it is supposed to be. Banner is unremarkable, unassuming, and in control. For God sakes the man actively tries avoid stress and conflict…the very things that make any character interesting. While the Hulk is a demanding, out of control force of personal and urban destruction. The attractive tension between Banner and “the other guy” is that one is so boring that you probably wouldn’t notice him unless he bumped into you, while the other is so engaging that the world has no choice but to take notice. The Hulk and not Banner over stimulates our interest levels and that is why just about any male actor with talent and the appropriate age can play Bruce Banner.
I don't think I agree. The reason why the first Hulk (2003) film didn't do well is that I believe it was too cerebral. It attempted to introduce the Hulk as not a separate character but as an embodiment of part of Bruce Banner's psyche and anger that he had suppressed for so long including the the fall out of the memory of and emotion about the murder of his mother. So much so it was a multiple-personality disorder taken an exciting extreme. This was done very well in the comics of the 1990's but it just didn't seem to click for movie audiences. The 2008 version had a lot more action but definitely treated Hulk and Banner as separate entities but only hinted at more. In Avengers, I'd say that Banner had come far enough that he and the Hulk had come to a kind of acceptance of one another but still treated Hulk as "the Other Guy" - which still could fit the multiple personality disorder. I think both Norton and Raffalo did a fine job, but both brought a different take on Bruce Banner yet valid interpretations from the comics. Remember Bruce Banner is not an idiot, he is a genius. Both Edward Norton and Mark Raffalo managed to show that. I don't think any actor can pull that off. One things that made the Marvel brand of characters so unique with respect to the way genre was handled before was that non-superhero alter-ego was more important than the superhero. For example: Peter Parker is just as important character as Spider-man. It's the same with Bruce Banner. If Bruce Banner as a character fails, then so does the Hulk.
Can Anyone Play Dr. Bruce Banner? (Editorial)
Monday, May 28, 2012
Faceplant of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Yahweh is Proven to be a Pernicious, Lofty, and Fickle God
Just when I thought no one was worse at understanding what the Bible says than John Loftus, posts like this one start getting posted here too. This is an excerpt from a book that we have written which is near completion, and was inspired by a heated online conversation we had with a well known Christian. In this excerpt, it will be proven that Yahweh, touted as the “ultimate and only true god,” is nothing short of a fickle, and pernicious god, with an added air of loftiness about him when it concerns the subjects of knowledge and wisdom. To prove this, I can show where in the Bible Yahweh views wisdom as being good, and also views it as being bad.
This post doesn't name the "well-known Christian" but I think I will try to track down the whole conversation because I get the feeling that he was almost misunderstood as badly as the Bible itself. For example, she seems to think that when wisdom is described as good and when wisdom is described as good that it's talking about the same kinds of wisdom in the same contexts.
Wisdom is good:
“Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding.” Prov 4:7
“ Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold.” Proverbs 3:13-15
"if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives it liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." James 1:5
Wisdom is bad:
“ For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.” Ecclesiastes 1:18
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Cor 1:18-19
To add further proof to my claim that the Christian god Yahweh is pernicious fickle and lofty, I will cite additional passages from Corinthians:
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.” Cor 1:25-29
To understand the point I am making, keep in mind the definitions of wisdom :
1. “The quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.
2. scholarly knowledge or learning: the wisdom of the schools.
3. wise sayings or teachings; precepts”
I thought that when one is defining a word, one should not use that word in the definition.
These passages show that Christians worship a god who chooses the foolish things just to shame the wise. He did not choose the foolish things because they are good; he chose them because they are NOT good--and he did this to nullify things that are good, just so he could be number one—top dog.
No. You have to answer this question: For what does God choose the foolish things of this world for? And what those things are? She quote the whole passage of 1 Cor 1:25-29 but what does the passage discuss? Knowledge? Is that what is being discussed? No. Paul is making a distinction between the world and people God chose out of the world. No one is good. The point is that God chose them and us even though the world would reject the chosen as unworthy.
Therefore, I can conclude from this that the Christian god Yahweh is fickle, pernicious, and lofty. This is just so bizarre, treacherous, deceitful, and monstrous, perhaps there is no worthy adjective I can use to describe it.
No, there are more appropriate adjectives: wesome and merciful. God takes people who are small, weak, stupid, poor, unworthy, ignored, disenfranchised, shunned - and chooses them to lavish His Love and mercy. God did this to nullify those who arrogantly assume that they are center of everything - not the good. God makes us good.
Just look at the passage again from the Christian Bible, which is the authority of Christianity:
“But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise and the things that are not to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.”
The bible proves once again not only how contradictory it is, but more importantly, it shows just how fickle and pernicious the Christian god Yahweh is.
So where is the perniciousness? The Contradiction? None Existent. Paul is very clear on what he's talking about. He's referring to conventional "wisdom" of the world - you know: the rejection of God.
I once asked a well known Christian who also happens to be a Mormon,...
Hold up!!!! Mormons are not Christians!
...if the Christian god Yahweh could be considered pernicious, fickle and lofty in regards to wisdom, and this is his part of his reply to me:
“In some Bible verses, God can come off in the manner you suggest. In others He comes off differently. It all depends on which verses you are referring to and what your interpretation is. If you use certain verses of the Bible to prove that God is evil but choose to ignore the verses in the same bible that prove that God is great, you my friend are now cherry picking. “
This well known Christian admitted to me not only that Yahweh is capable of evil, but Yahweh is also pernicious, lofty and fickle.
Mormons don't accept that God created the universe - merely arranging what is already there. They also don't believe the Bible is inerrant so of course they would agree that God comes off differently depending on particular Bible passages.
These are not the qualities of a wise human being, let alone qualities of a supposed “ultimate creator of the universe.”
It is Yahweh himself who admits to being responsible for the evil in the world; therefore it would be logical that he would also be capable of evil, as an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god could be capable of no less.
There is a difference in being Jealous of someone. That means you want what someone else has that does not belong to you. This the kind of "jealous" that is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 13. There is another kind of "jealousy". This kind is wanting what belongs to you that someone else is trying to take - being jealous for something is not equivalent to being jealous of someone. Many atheists erroneously conflate the two.
Mormons don't accept that God created the universe - merely arranging what is already there. They also don't believe the Bible is inerrant so of course they would agree that God comes off differently depending on particular Bible passages.
These are not the qualities of a wise human being, let alone qualities of a supposed “ultimate creator of the universe.”
Of course those are the qualities of a unregenerate human being - we are all sinners remember? It does not describe the God of the Bible.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7
Controlling and managing evil does not equal being capable of evil. Asserting it does not make it so.
There are Christians who state that the Bible should not be taken literally, and claim it is nothing but a collection of wise sayings and teachings. These same Christians also say that since the Bible has stood the test of time for over 2000 years, it must also contain some wisdom in it.
What Christians are she talking to? Oh yeah, Mormons.
But as it was stated in the first chapter, Christianity only became popular through brute force, not because it is right in its teachings, or that it is the one true religion.
Something does not become wisdom just because it has been held as a popular belief for thousands of years; just as we now know that even thought the world was thought of as flat for thousands of years, we now accept that it is not.
The flat earth argument is not real good example.
To say that something must be worthy just because of its popularity, would be fallacious. In truth, the Bible contains very little wisdom,...
....as even the 10 commandments which are the supposed moral guidelines that the “perfect” god Yahweh dictated to Moses are inherently flawed. (The real 10 commandments said to be contained in the Ark of the Covenant are in Exodus 34, and contain a verse about no cooking a goat in its mother's milk. Nothing about not raping or molesting children--but cooking goats.)
So because the Law specifically does no mention that it's wrong to rape or molest children, it is flawed? Isn't that silly. On top of that there are about 613 laws in the Torah and not all 613 laws were in the Ark. The Ten we talk about aren't even the greatest commandment and it would include prohibition against raping anyone. Recall that rape was a capital offense.
Even when it comes to Yahweh being all-loving" the Bible is wrong, which the following passages illustrate:
Controlling and managing evil does not equal being capable of evil. Asserting it does not make it so.
There are Christians who state that the Bible should not be taken literally, and claim it is nothing but a collection of wise sayings and teachings. These same Christians also say that since the Bible has stood the test of time for over 2000 years, it must also contain some wisdom in it.
What Christians are she talking to? Oh yeah, Mormons.
But as it was stated in the first chapter, Christianity only became popular through brute force, not because it is right in its teachings, or that it is the one true religion.
It took on a brute nature when Emperor Constantine made it a crime in the Roman Empire not to be a Christian in the 4th Century. It had been a crime before that to be Christian. When you have people coming into the church who have not been born-again of course you are going to see conversion through brute force in many cases but not necessary. It also does not show that Christianity is not true even thought it does not show that Christianity is true either. There is plenty of other evidence we can call upon.
Something does not become wisdom just because it has been held as a popular belief for thousands of years; just as we now know that even thought the world was thought of as flat for thousands of years, we now accept that it is not.
The flat earth argument is not real good example.
To say that something must be worthy just because of its popularity, would be fallacious. In truth, the Bible contains very little wisdom,...
Guess she hasn't read Job, Proverbs, or Ecclesiastes.
....as even the 10 commandments which are the supposed moral guidelines that the “perfect” god Yahweh dictated to Moses are inherently flawed. (The real 10 commandments said to be contained in the Ark of the Covenant are in Exodus 34, and contain a verse about no cooking a goat in its mother's milk. Nothing about not raping or molesting children--but cooking goats.)
So because the Law specifically does no mention that it's wrong to rape or molest children, it is flawed? Isn't that silly. On top of that there are about 613 laws in the Torah and not all 613 laws were in the Ark. The Ten we talk about aren't even the greatest commandment and it would include prohibition against raping anyone. Recall that rape was a capital offense.
Even when it comes to Yahweh being all-loving" the Bible is wrong, which the following passages illustrate:
"Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
If, as these passages state, that love is patient and kind, then Yahweh is neither of those things; as he is portrayed as a jealous, angry vengeful god in the Holy Bible:
Love is not jealous of other people. God is not easily provoked to anger but abounding in love in patient. Don't forget that the God gave the people of Noah's time 120 years to repent. He gave the people of Canaan over 400 years to repent before they were wiped out by Joshua and his forces. Lastly he hasn't destroyed us and giving us the time to repent.
“(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.” Deuteronomy 6:15 KJV
The claim that the Christian god Yahweh is an “all-loving” god can be easily refuted using the classic logic formula of “modus tollens”, which is: “If P, then Q. Not Q, therefore, not P.” Using this formula it could be stated that:
P1. If Yahweh is all loving, then he cannot be jealous.
If, as these passages state, that love is patient and kind, then Yahweh is neither of those things; as he is portrayed as a jealous, angry vengeful god in the Holy Bible:
Love is not jealous of other people. God is not easily provoked to anger but abounding in love in patient. Don't forget that the God gave the people of Noah's time 120 years to repent. He gave the people of Canaan over 400 years to repent before they were wiped out by Joshua and his forces. Lastly he hasn't destroyed us and giving us the time to repent.
“(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.” Deuteronomy 6:15 KJV
The claim that the Christian god Yahweh is an “all-loving” god can be easily refuted using the classic logic formula of “modus tollens”, which is: “If P, then Q. Not Q, therefore, not P.” Using this formula it could be stated that:
P1. If Yahweh is all loving, then he cannot be jealous.
P2. Yahweh is not, not jealous.
C. Therefore, Yahweh is not all-loving.
There is a difference in being Jealous of someone. That means you want what someone else has that does not belong to you. This the kind of "jealous" that is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 13. There is another kind of "jealousy". This kind is wanting what belongs to you that someone else is trying to take - being jealous for something is not equivalent to being jealous of someone. Many atheists erroneously conflate the two.
This is just one example of the many contradictory attributes Christians have bestowed upon their god. The evidence of Yahweh's pernicious nature makes it clear that there is little wisdom to be gained by embracing his teachings or emulating his actions.
_____________________
Cathy Cooper
_____________________
Cathy Cooper
Contradictions that critics introduce so that they pretend the Bible is not true and that they can just ignore god and pretend they have logical reasons to do so. Of all the scriptures that talk about wisdom I'm surprised that the following was omitted:
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness. - James 3:13-18
Debunking Christianity: Yahweh is Proven to be a Pernicious, Lofty, and Fickle God
MIT Students + iPad = Future
MIT Students + iPad = Future
Sunday, May 27, 2012
FacePlant of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Bible Believing Fundamentalist Peter Ruckman, PhD Lectures on the Bible
If Dr. Ruckman makes more sense than his enemies (as noted at the video’s end), it’s only because his enemies are Christians!
Listen and Learn!! .
From his web page: Dr. Peter S. Ruckman received his Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Alabama and completed his Master of Arts and Doctor of Philosophy in Bible at Bob Jones University. Reading at the rate of seven hundred words per minute, Dr. Ruckman had managed to read about 6,500 books before receiving his doctorate and still he manages to average one book a day. Dr. Ruckman stands for the absolute authority of the Authorized King James Version and will debate any scholar who tries to find any textual problems with it. In 1965 Dr. Ruckman founded Pensacola Bible Institute and runs Bible Baptist Book Store in Pensacola, Fla. HERE.
Pointing to a proponent of King James Only-ism and criticizing it as proof that Christianity is rather stupid and short-sighted. Christians who have bothered to study anything in reality recognize that a translation can't be held as a standard. It's just simply wrong. The translators of the KJV recognized themselves that their translations was not inerrant. We need to go with the Greek and Hebrew texts whenever there is a question as to what the meaning is. Ruckman indeed has lost many debates on this subject. Trotting Ruckman out as an example of what Christians believe is akin to arguing that all atheists think like Jefferey Dahmer. A really pathetic argument. It is also like the animated gif above - trying to arrest a drunk girl and ending up on suspension.
If you want to see how Christians really think about the garbage things that Ruckman believes, read this following response by Dr James White: A Response to Dr. Ruckman
Debunking Christianity: Bible Believing Fundamentalist Peter Ruckman, PhD Lectures on the Bible
Saturday, May 26, 2012
Surprising No One, 'One Million Moms' Is Mad About Gay X-Men - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews
He quotes the group's website:
Children desire to be just like superheroes. Children mimic superhero actions and even dress up in costumes to resemble these characters as much as possible. Can you imagine little boys saying, "I want a boyfriend or husband like X-Men?"
The thing I disagree with is that pointing out embracing a behavior or actions that go against a person's well being is bullying and hatred. Unfortunately, Christians have not given gay people the love they deserve. Homosexuality is no worse a sin than lying or stealing or murder, but often Christians tell Homosexuals that what they are doing is the worse possible sin you can do. That's not what the Bible says. God doesn't hate homosexuals. God calls all of us to repentance and holiness. Not just homosexuals. We all have sinned not just homosexuals. How is it hatred to tell someone that God loves you and has better for you if you just trust God and obey God. God has got the best for you.God will improve your life. You don't have to settle for less than the very best God has for you.
The following verse applies to all of us.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is —his good, pleasing and perfect will. - Romans 12:1,2
But you can't do it without God and God will help you if you give yourself to God.
Surprising No One, 'One Million Moms' Is Mad About Gay X-Men - ComicsAlliance | Comic book culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews
FacePlant of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Welcome to the World of Christianity
As a Christian, you are now following THE supreme God who created the universe. Here are the absolute truths that make your God special:
A. Your God is omnipotent (Having unlimited power and authority). B. Your God is omnipresent (He is present everywhere). C. Your God is omniscient (Having total knowledge). D. Your God commands billions of angels of which just one could destroy the world. As a Christian, you are now part of a large and diverse group totaling over 2.2 billion members that has a yearly worldwide budget totaling approximately one half of a trillion dollars. However! On the other side is God’s arch enemy and now your enemy too: Satan. Satan leads a small army of fallen angels (called demons). A. Satan has limited power (Only what little control God gives him). B. Satan has no earthly members (Just a few "Dabblers"). C. And most of all, Satan has no budget because he has no income from tithes and offerings. BUT YET: According to God's own word the Bible - especially the Book of Revelation; God with all the above supreme attributes is now actually losing a battle He created by putting the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and by casting Satan and his demons out of Heaven to earth. Moreover, God has even sacrificed His only begotten Son – Jesus - to defeat Satan and sin. At the end of the age, all of humanity will one day stand before your God at the Great White Throne Judgment to give an account of their lives. If they are non-Christians, then they must tell this all knowing God exactly why they as simple mortal sinful creatures with limited understandings screwed up; after which they will be cast into a Lake of Fire whose smoke rises forever all eternity to fry in torment forever. HOW ARE WE TO MAKE SENSE OF ALL OF THE ABOVE? It's a Divine Mystery (A theological term coined by the Catholic Church).
One good thing that we can say in McCall's favor is that at least he does attempt to read the comments of those who disagree with him. Of course reading them and understanding them are not the same thing. He next quoted one of them
Below is the response to this 2006 post here and the supposedly refutation by the TRIABLOGGERS Christian apologetic blog: "It's amazing how many unbiblical assumptions these apostates are able to cram into the Biblical narrative. You see, these apostates love to fluctuate in and out of internal critiques. They'll do a post like this one where they appear to be taking Biblical data into account (consider the "statistics" that were cited), but then they'll push aside everything the Bible says about the subject only to insert their own atheistic presuppositions. But of course the Bible disagrees with atheistic assumptions!"
Harry McCall
McCall does not seem to understand what unbiblical assumptions he uses in critiquing Christianity. Let's look list a few of them he committed in the paragraph above.
1, No where does the Bible tells us how many angels there are.
2. No where does the Bible tells us how many demons there are other than 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God and followed Lucifer.
3. No where does the Bible describe Satan as God's archenemy. To be an archenemy you'd have to be a threat. The Devil has already lost this.
Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.” - Revelations 12:12
And the Bible also tells us that Jesus' victory blindsided Satan. He didn't know that Jesus' death sealed his defeat.
7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. - 1 Corinthians 2:7,8
4. Judgement Day isn't about you explaining to God why you messed up the life and time He gave you. It's when you will be held accountable for the things you have said and done. You will be judged. And if you are clothed in the rags of your own righteousness instead of Jesus' you will be going to perdition.
5. You won't need to explain or give an excuse for your own corruption and imperfection
for he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust. - Psalm 103:14
6. We are not supposed to make sense of it apart from God allowing us to understand it. If you can't understand any of it, it's because you are too carnally minded and God has not put His spirit into you. McCall illustrates this with every post he writes.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8: 5-8
If you are going to talk about what the Bible teaches you should get it right. Here is a comment from this post:
NenoDecember
Why did god feel the need to prove anything about his character to himself or to anyone? Why could he not have been satisfied to know this about himself and leave it at that? Why the need to create a world and conscious beings to whom you can show your glory? Was he not satisfied to just know it about himself? Is he not all-sufficient? Why does he feel the need to create these very real people to show his glory to and expose these very real people, who he loves, to sin and evil and then send these very real people to hell? Isn’t he really just doing all of this for himself while real created beings burn in hell and suffer unending misery for all eternity because of it? This is not a divine mystery--it is divine psychopathic, ego-maniacal selfishness with a touch of stupidity.
Paul answered you
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:19-24
Debunking Christianity: Welcome to the World of Christianity
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: From a God in a Box to the Universal Sky God: Eternal Blessing and Suffering for All
McCall writes:
Remember, this was not the Universal Sky God of the New Testament, but a small localize god who only had a contract (covenant) with Israel alone. Thus, we find Israel’s great King David worried that Box God does not have a house to live while he does, but like a homeless bum, Box God has to live in a tent: the king summoned Nathan the prophet. "Look," David said, "I am living in a beautiful cedar palace, but the Ark of God is out there in a tent! (2 Samuel 7:2).
McCall thinks that in the Old Testament, God is only the god of the Jews. He's wrong. Israel is God's special possession but God consistently represented Himself as God over everyone! None of the scriptures McCall brings up says that God is not God of everyone!
God said the following to Abram:
This undermines the whole article!
Debunking Christianity: From a God in a Box to the Universal Sky God: Eternal Blessing and Suffering for All
Friday, May 25, 2012
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Why I HATE Christianity
I recently wrote a post on my blog explaining why I HATE Christianity which received over 3500 hits in one day, so I thought I would also submit it to DC to gauge the reaction here. I have put some of the Christian responses, and my counters at the bottom of the post. Enjoy!
There are many reasons why I hate Christianity--and yes, I do literally hate Christianity. Why?--because of the negative doctrines it promotes, and the resulting "moral laxity"--which the Christian philosopher Pelagius pointed out long ago. Let me explain by offering the following analogy.
Pelagius was not a Christian. He was a heretic. He denied that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation. That isn't Christian. There have been two past posts discussing how bad the
"moral laxity" charge really doesn't hold any logic - just blind emotion.
The following would be a life situation for many, and is analyzed from a Christian perspective:
Christians believe they are born bad, and cannot help but to do bad things because they are "born sinners." (Original sin) Now, a Christian man who says he loves his wife still beats her because she doesn't do as she is told. She forgives him for hurting her every time, because that is what her religion tells her to do. The man beats her because the same religion tells him he has authority over her, and he cannot help but to do bad things, so he does them thinking he can't help himself--but it's ok, because his god will forgive him. Until one fateful day when a beating ends in death, and he kills his wife with his bare hands.
What scriptures would a Christian stand on to believe that one the husband should abuse and beat his wife and that the wife should take it? Book, Chapter, and Verse? None. If a husband abuses his wife she should leave to protect himself. My prayer would be that he would seek to change and stop. When people make such a silly argument I wonder if it is out of ignorance or dishonesty. How can someone read the following and come away thinking that the Bible says the husband can treat his wife any kind of way and please God.
In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. - Ephesians 5:28
THIS IS WHY I HATE CHRISTIANITY. I hate the fact that this religion tells people they are EXPECTED to behave badly.
God does not expect us to behave badly. He expects Holiness.
I hate the fact that there are NO CONSEQUENCES for their bad behavior in this life or the next for believers as long as they sincerely say "sorry" to Jesus. What about the victims?? What compensation do they get under the Christian system? None. There is no justice for victims of Christian crime--unless it is through secular laws. Therefore, Christianity in and of itself is IMMORAL and UNJUST. This is the biggest reason why I HATE Christianity.
So let's get this straight: You will choose to go to hell, give up a personal and close relationship with God, because another sinner that you judge to be worse than yourself (and you are no better than they) finds the same forgiveness and love you reject. Yup, that's logical.
If people believed they could do the right thing the first time, and took responsibility for their own actions instead of having "Jesus" do that for them, the world would be a much better place to live in.
People who turn their lives to Christ don't get to avoid consequences. They are forgiven because of Jesus not for anything we have done. No one is good enough on your own. How many of the commandments have you broken? I'm not talking about adultery or stealing or murder...what about lying? Honoring your parents? Putting God first in your life? You know you have failed....no matter how much you have tried on your own. If you have broken any one of them you have broken them all. What about the victims of your sins and mistakes? How do you deal with the consequences? How are you going to pay for that? You and I are just as guilty of sin as anyone. The difference is that Jesus is the propitiation for those who put their trust in Him. What is your propitiation?
______________________________________
Christian response: You won't accomplish anything by hating anyone. Also, no studied Christians believes these things. You should read through the Gospel again and get to the core of Christian faith. No one likes an ignorant preacher- Christian or Atheist.
My counter: You are quite mistaken, as you can accomplish a great deal through hate--if you are hating the right things. Think of what could have happened if the world had not "hated" Hitler for instance. If more women "hated" their abusive husbands, maybe so many of them would not have had to die at their hands.
What is more powerful and accomplishes more: Love or Hatred?
Pelagius was not a Christian. He was a heretic. He denied that faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation. That isn't Christian. There have been two past posts discussing how bad the
"moral laxity" charge really doesn't hold any logic - just blind emotion.
The following would be a life situation for many, and is analyzed from a Christian perspective:
Christians believe they are born bad, and cannot help but to do bad things because they are "born sinners." (Original sin) Now, a Christian man who says he loves his wife still beats her because she doesn't do as she is told. She forgives him for hurting her every time, because that is what her religion tells her to do. The man beats her because the same religion tells him he has authority over her, and he cannot help but to do bad things, so he does them thinking he can't help himself--but it's ok, because his god will forgive him. Until one fateful day when a beating ends in death, and he kills his wife with his bare hands.
What scriptures would a Christian stand on to believe that one the husband should abuse and beat his wife and that the wife should take it? Book, Chapter, and Verse? None. If a husband abuses his wife she should leave to protect himself. My prayer would be that he would seek to change and stop. When people make such a silly argument I wonder if it is out of ignorance or dishonesty. How can someone read the following and come away thinking that the Bible says the husband can treat his wife any kind of way and please God.
In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. - Ephesians 5:28
or
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives,
and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you
of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. - 1 Peter 3: 7
THIS IS WHY I HATE CHRISTIANITY. I hate the fact that this religion tells people they are EXPECTED to behave badly.
God does not expect us to behave badly. He expects Holiness.
I hate the fact that there are NO CONSEQUENCES for their bad behavior in this life or the next for believers as long as they sincerely say "sorry" to Jesus. What about the victims?? What compensation do they get under the Christian system? None. There is no justice for victims of Christian crime--unless it is through secular laws. Therefore, Christianity in and of itself is IMMORAL and UNJUST. This is the biggest reason why I HATE Christianity.
So let's get this straight: You will choose to go to hell, give up a personal and close relationship with God, because another sinner that you judge to be worse than yourself (and you are no better than they) finds the same forgiveness and love you reject. Yup, that's logical.
If people believed they could do the right thing the first time, and took responsibility for their own actions instead of having "Jesus" do that for them, the world would be a much better place to live in.
People who turn their lives to Christ don't get to avoid consequences. They are forgiven because of Jesus not for anything we have done. No one is good enough on your own. How many of the commandments have you broken? I'm not talking about adultery or stealing or murder...what about lying? Honoring your parents? Putting God first in your life? You know you have failed....no matter how much you have tried on your own. If you have broken any one of them you have broken them all. What about the victims of your sins and mistakes? How do you deal with the consequences? How are you going to pay for that? You and I are just as guilty of sin as anyone. The difference is that Jesus is the propitiation for those who put their trust in Him. What is your propitiation?
______________________________________
Christian response: You won't accomplish anything by hating anyone. Also, no studied Christians believes these things. You should read through the Gospel again and get to the core of Christian faith. No one likes an ignorant preacher- Christian or Atheist.
My counter: You are quite mistaken, as you can accomplish a great deal through hate--if you are hating the right things. Think of what could have happened if the world had not "hated" Hitler for instance. If more women "hated" their abusive husbands, maybe so many of them would not have had to die at their hands.
What is more powerful and accomplishes more: Love or Hatred?
And I have studied the religion EXTENSIVELY--I have taught it for 14 yrs at university level. The core of your philosophy is a convoluted version of "love" as illustrated above, and "forgiveness" for any heinous deed--which, as Pelagius noted long ago--leads to moral laxity. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, where we have a disproportionate amount of Christians in the penal system. You know, men who beat their wives to death--that actually get punished instead of being let off the hook.
Another Christian response: Yeah, but if people don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. The woman is going to get beaten whether she does the dishes or not. There will always be a reason for the violence. The only realistic solution is to leave the source of the violence and abuse, be it a spouse who promised to love and cherish until death do they part or an all-loving God who promised even more.
Huh???!!! I hope no one would actually try to pass that as a response.
My counter: So, you are saying that beating a woman for not doing the dishes is justified because she is going to get beaten whether she does the dishes or not.
No, I wouldn't.
Thank you for pointing out another "beef" I have with Christianity--that being, women are treated as second class citizens, and even worse, they are treated as chattel--because that is how the Bible depicts women--as possessions. To people that follow the Bible, women are chattel--they were not even worth counting as "citizens" in the census taken by Moses in Numbers.
Sure. That's why Jesus had female disciples and women were the first witnesses to the Resurrection...oops....those points go against that the Bible tells men to mistreat women...sorry. When a man mistreats and abuse a woman it is because he is a sinner who needs Jesus not because he is a born-again Christian following The Bible. If Cathy Cooper has been studying religion for such a long time it apparently wasn't Christianity she studied.
And without Augustine's "original sin" there would be NO NEED for Jesus either. And without the "sin" there would be NO NEED for women to be beaten by men who believe they are "sinners." Therefore, we are better off without the original sin, as we have no need to be redeemed from it--leaving no excuse for "being bad" other than our own choices. If you choose to beat someone to death it will then all be on you--and you must take the consequences.
That is why unrepentant wife beaters go to hell. Don't go to hell with them. Misogyny is really evil, but it is also a symptom of a larger problem: Sin. We are all sinners even if you are not a misogynist. God holds us accountable for following his law. If you sin - like abusing your spouse - you will be held accountable. If you can't change and fully repent God will clean you up and fix your brokenness if you surrender to God and quit your hatred.
So most of the people in the penal system are both Christians and are in prisons for abusing their wives? Really? Got any numbers to substantiate that? This isn't the kind "love" commanded in the Bible. I mean just because there have been people who failed to live up to this love doesn't mean Christianity is wrong.
Another Christian response: Yeah, but if people don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. The woman is going to get beaten whether she does the dishes or not. There will always be a reason for the violence. The only realistic solution is to leave the source of the violence and abuse, be it a spouse who promised to love and cherish until death do they part or an all-loving God who promised even more.
Huh???!!! I hope no one would actually try to pass that as a response.
My counter: So, you are saying that beating a woman for not doing the dishes is justified because she is going to get beaten whether she does the dishes or not.
No, I wouldn't.
Thank you for pointing out another "beef" I have with Christianity--that being, women are treated as second class citizens, and even worse, they are treated as chattel--because that is how the Bible depicts women--as possessions. To people that follow the Bible, women are chattel--they were not even worth counting as "citizens" in the census taken by Moses in Numbers.
Sure. That's why Jesus had female disciples and women were the first witnesses to the Resurrection...oops....those points go against that the Bible tells men to mistreat women...sorry. When a man mistreats and abuse a woman it is because he is a sinner who needs Jesus not because he is a born-again Christian following The Bible. If Cathy Cooper has been studying religion for such a long time it apparently wasn't Christianity she studied.
And without Augustine's "original sin" there would be NO NEED for Jesus either. And without the "sin" there would be NO NEED for women to be beaten by men who believe they are "sinners." Therefore, we are better off without the original sin, as we have no need to be redeemed from it--leaving no excuse for "being bad" other than our own choices. If you choose to beat someone to death it will then all be on you--and you must take the consequences.
That is why unrepentant wife beaters go to hell. Don't go to hell with them. Misogyny is really evil, but it is also a symptom of a larger problem: Sin. We are all sinners even if you are not a misogynist. God holds us accountable for following his law. If you sin - like abusing your spouse - you will be held accountable. If you can't change and fully repent God will clean you up and fix your brokenness if you surrender to God and quit your hatred.
____________________
These are just a few reasons why I hate Christianity--there are many more. I would love to hear how others feel about it as well.
Cathy Cooper
Cathy Cooper
One must have better reasons than this to hate and reject God. It really boils down to the problem of evil. A final word:
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For
Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that
I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does
not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some
pottery for special purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:14-24
Debunking Christianity: Why I HATE Christianity
Thursday, May 24, 2012
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: In Defense of the Non-Ethics of Christianity
In this post, I am going to build upon one of my previous posts, namely, The Non-Ethics of Christianity, in order to further illustrate how the Pauline version of Christianity that has been adopted by the majority of Christians in our society (and many non-Christians as well) leads to moral laxity. I will use two examples of Christians who purport to undermine my case, but who in fact, support my case, and illustrate why the Pauline version of Christianity leads to moral laxity.
In case, it wasn't clear before, it cannot be shown that Paul's teaching contradicted Jesus' in the slightest. Paul said very clearly that he would never agree that we should ever be morally lax.
In my previous post, I cited the fulfillment passages of Matt. 5:17-20, to show that according to Jesus, believers are suppose to follow all of the laws and that they are to do the right thing.
Hmmm...where does Paul say that we shouldn't do the right thing? Further, what does Paul believe the right thing is?
Marcus McElhaney of the "What had happen' was.... blog responded:
Take some time and really reflect on what Jesus said. Is Jesus talking about dietary laws? What about the law about picking up sticks on the sabbath? Or what about the ceremonial laws no one can follow now that there is no Temple nor Tabernacle? No, no, and no. Jesus tells us what he's referring to and what does it mean to be more righteous that the Pharisees and the teachers of the law in verses 21-48. See how everything He talks about can be traced to the words in the law but Jesus takes them a step farther so it's not just about doing the right thing. It is also about desiring and thinking the right things.So far, Marcus seems to be in agreement with me in that all of the laws apply. He even goes further and claims that it is not just about doing the right thing, but one is to even desire and think the right thing too. So far, we are in agreement.
Well no, I don't think we agree. I don't think so because there is no indication that the writer believes that all the ceremonial laws apply today or not. Which is it? If they do, then we have Jesus contradicting himself when he declared all foods clean. I don't accept that at all. Jesus made a distinction between the ceremonial laws and moral laws.Why wouldn't you?
18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. - Mark 7:18-20
So, no I would not say that all 600+ laws found in the Torah is for us today. The moral law is. Don't forget the persecution the Jewish religious leaders used to try to lie on Jesus because they didn't think he obeyed the Sabbath laws because he had the audacity to heal people on the Sabbath and improve their lives. The nerve of him.
Next, he quotes me:
"The belief that Christians do not have to follow the laws came from Paul. According to Paul, Christians are in essence, "lawless." This makes "sin" something of a paradox because a sin is defined as a transgression against God's laws--but there are no laws!"
Marcus responds, with a corresponding Bible passage:
Paul never said that. Funny how in the 21st Century the same charge is being brought up as was tried against him when he was alive.
7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just! 9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. - Romans 3:7-9Now, we are coming to where I and Christians like Marcus split ways. I argued that according to Jesus you are not free from the law, i.e., not free to do anything, and it is possible to be perfect.
Jesus did not teach that we can be perfect (I'm assuming that "perfect" here mean "sinless"). In Matthew 5:17-20 does not refer to sinless perfection. Does anyone think that if people could be sinless that Jesus would need to be crucified to atone for our sin? If we weren't so hopelessly enslaved to sin, we would not have needed a propitiatory sacrifice. I wonder why there isn't any refutation on the way I explained what the passage above says. Oh well, If you didn't like what Paul wrote, you will like what Jesus said even less.
24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” - John 8:24
However, Marcus, following Paul, adopts the opposite view. Paul claims you can do anything and that you are under the power of sin and so will do anything, good or bad; but you ought not do bad things because not everything will be good for you; but then again you are under the power of sin and so can not help yourself;....--the great Christian paradox and dilemma begins!
Romans 7 and 8 lays this out much clearer. Paul is making the case for why Jesus is essential and why we need Jesus. I disagree that Paul teaches that you should control yourself because not everything is good for us. No, we do good because we Love God and that the reason Jesus redeemed us was so that we can do the good works that God has set up for us to do!
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-10
Marcus continues:
"Who really thinks they are perfect in their choices and they do make the right choices. Most people don't make the wrong choices on purpose. They do what they think is best for them. The problem is that we don't know better than God does about what is best for us. We are flawed. Broken. That's not saying that we never do anything good. But when we do, that was God, even if we don't know it or recognize it coming from Him. We are responsible for our sin because that is what we want to do. It's hard to accept that we are so messed up it took so much to redeem us, but that is the good news: God loves us that much. So how do we sum up ethical Christianity:
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. - Galatians 5:13,14"Well, Jesus thought you could be perfect and make right choices and that it is possible to do so.
Really? Where did Jesus say that? We have no hope of doing so 100% apart from Him. Remember that if you break one law, you break them all. All of us deserve hell. Jesus came to save us from that.
Jesus said nothing about being flawed and broken and therefore unable to be perfect and make right choices! To paraphrase Marcus, If a man tortures a child and then he is sorry for it, I mean, REALLY sorry for it, then as long as he agrees/believes in God/Jesus, "hell is off the table." (As he notes later on in his post.)
Hell is off the table because Jesus took the punishment for all of our sin. If you die in your sin you will be in hell right along with the man who tortured a child and never repented. It's not just being sorry and I pointed this out in the post - you must repent - that means stop and do good instead. We are all sinners and no better than the "man who tortures children". Jesus said no one comes to the God except through Him. Why?
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. - Matthew 9:11-13
Who is good?
According to Mark 10:17-19, Jesus said no one. That means no one is righteous either. Which is why we need a savior!
Now note, Marcus goes on to say that:
"...then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you.Meaning, its NOT that believers DON'T do it again--only that they TRY not to. Why, there are probably sexual molesters and serial killers that feel real remorse for their crimes, and they try not to do it again--and in the Christian system, as long as they are sorry and they truly mean it, and TRY to be good--that's all that matters. THIS, according to Paul's perversion of the text.
How can Paul pervert a text he wrote? But leaving that aside, this is where you can't understand what Christianity is without God. The Holy Spirit helps you to stop sinning. The article's author seems focus on big sins like the crimes people are going to jail for or executed for.Those are not things you can do by accident. Can you accidentally murder someone? No. If you have to try not to murder people or try not to molest people then you have not been born again.
According Jesus however, believers are not free to do whatever they want.
True believers in Jesus don't do what we want. We do what Jesus wants.
According to Jesus, they are to follow all the laws and and the prophets and you are subject to judgement according to the laws. Jesus commands: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:48
The Greek "perfect" does not mean sinless. I means mature, perfect, and complete.
How did Jesus tell us to be fulfill the Law and the Prophets?
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.- Mark 12:28-34
Marcus makes reference to Matt 5:21-48. But now note how MARCUS PROVES MY POST, as he illustrates the Christian confusion and dilemma. He states that:
"...it's not just about doing the right thing. It is also about desiring and thinking the right things."But then he goes on to tell us that believers CANNOT do the right things, as you are not "perfect," you are flawed and broken!
Actually I said that everyone - all humanity is broken.
But it is even worse than that. Marcus has already alluded to another problem within Christianity. As Marcus said above:
"That's not saying that we never do anything good. But when we do, that was God."In other words, God determines who is good and who is bad--God is responsible. God even decides who believes and who does not believe!
But we are accountable.
In my previous post I said:
"Unfortunately, today we live in a society full of these "born sinners"--people who believe they were born bad, and cannot help but to do bad things--which explains the chaos. However, if Christians cannot help but to sin, do they really have "free will??" Not according to the Bible--but that is for another post."
Marcus goes on to say in response to me:
I have to ask...who said you have free-will? It's not just Christians who cannot help but sin - everyone does. Romans 8:5-8 lays out the fact that we are unable to be anything but hostile to God on our own and cannot choose to do differently. IF you truly had free will then you would be able to choose to never sin and always do the right thing 100% of the time in all circumstances - without God. Good luck with that. In the following Socratic dialogue, is where the article truly goes off the rails.
So, according to Marcus, not only is humanity incapable of following the laws and doing right, but no one, including Christians, cannot help BUT to sin, because as he stated, we have "no free will." Believers are "god's robots" according to Marcus, doing evil things because, well, as the bible tells us, "...EVERY decision is from the Lord." (Proverbs 16:33)
I thought I was clear, but I'll say it again: apart from the power of God in our lives we are not capable of following the law 100 percent of the time. That's not an excuse because we still accountable to the standard God has set. You are a slave to sin and Jesus is the only way out. But again if you had free will, why do you still sin?
If they cannot choose to do differently, then it is YAHWEH'S fault that they do evil things. This is further supported by the Bible, as Isaiah 45:7 tells us that Yahweh created evil. Therefore, according to Marcus, believers cannot do the right things, as they are not "perfect" and worse yet, believers have no free will to do so!--it is all up to God!
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For
Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that
I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does
not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some
pottery for special purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:14-24
This is inconsistent however, with the last statement Jesus made in the passages Marcus cited from Matthew 5:21-48, for in 48, Jesus commands followers to "be perfect!!" i.e., believers CAN do right and keep the laws and they are to do so!
Jesus referred to the moral law not the ceremonial law.
Lastly, Marcus cites Paul, where Paul claims that believers are FREE FROM THE LAW and that all the laws are condensed into Loving their neighbors as themselves!
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. - Galatians 5:13,14But note, these passage are also inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus. For how does "love your neighbor as yourself" cover keeping the 613 laws and the teachings of the Prophets? It doesn't.
Oh so now Jesus' words is not good enough. Jesus said that it did fulfill the Law and the Prophets.
Let's put it to the test.
MURDER--anyone who murders will be subject to judgment
KOSHER FOOD LAWS--take the kosher food laws according to Jesus, then, anyone who breaks the kosher food laws will be subject to judgment.
ORGIES--how does love your neighbor as yourself prevent you from having an orgy? Hmmmm--lol. It actually seems to support orgies if you and your neighbors love each other! Let's say two married couples who are neighbors had an orgy together. Love your neighbor as yourself does not rule this out! But now note, such orgies would violate the Old Testament laws concerning adultery.
If you murder a person you have failed to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus declared all foods clean. And as for orgies, Matthew 19 covers that and "Love" is not the kind of "love" that leads to orgies. Jesus quoted the Old Testament so in no way is there a contradiction The kind of Love is agape that Jesus referred to. Erotic love is what gets you orgies. People should really stop mixing categories!!!
“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. - Leviticus 19:18
According to Jesus, not only would such an orgy be ruled out, but these people participating in such activities would have to yank their eyes out and so forth, if they even thought about it.
That really distorts what Jesus said.
So according to Jesus, believers are not free from the law, they are still under "judgement" by the law, and Jesus said they need to be "perfect" as their father in heaven is perfect. i.e, This means they cannot sin, repent, sin, repent, and repeat when necessary. Jesus' supposed sacrifice was a ONE TIME ONLY deal, and Hebrews 10:26-27 confirms this when it states that if believers sin "willfully" after having the "laws written on their hearts" there is no more sacrifice for sins--only the burning fires of hell. No repentance.
No Believer woulds say that you can or should willfully sin. Therefore it shows that Christianity cannot lead to an ethical lax. Don't sell the scope of Jesus' sacrifice too short. It covers everyone who believes in what God had given them who ever has lived, now lives, or ever will lives. Abraham is just as saved as I am because He believed God although he did not have as full a picture of what God was doing as we do today.
Paul, however, was literally saying that the laws no longer apply. This led to debauchery, orgies, and general chaos. This is also why Christians do not follow the majority of the 613 laws or the teachings of the prophets.
Again where did Jesus say we had to keep the dietary laws and the ceremonial laws? Debauchery, orgies, and general chaos came from people's sinful hearts and arguments like "how does love your neighbor as yourself prevent you from having an orgy?"
When I stated that:" ....even if there were "laws" to break, they would be redundant anyway, when anything can be forgiven as long as a believer sincerely "repents. ...making "sins" virtually meaningless."
Let's apply some honesty here. The Bible is very clear that God punishes sin. Saying "I'm sorry" is neither repentance nor a Free-Get-Out-of-Hell-Free card. Anyone who thinks this way does not understand what Biblical Christianity is. True Repentance means agreeing with God that He is right and We are wrong. It means doing a 180 degree turn away from the offending thought and practice we are sorry for. We are sorry for what what we did and not just sorry about being caught doing it. If you truly repent then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you. That's not saying that there are no consequences or repercussions - only that hell is off the table as one of them. God may choose to give you mercy so that don't suffer here and now but there is no guarantee of that. The guarantee is that God will be with youTo paraphrase Marcus, If a man tortures a child and then he is sorry for it, I mean REALLY sorry for it, then as long as he believes in Jesus, "hell is off the table" Now note, that Marcus goes on to say that:
"...then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you.Meaning it's Not that believers DON'T do it again--only that they TRY not to. Why, many many sexual molesters and serial killers feel real remorse for their crimes, and they try not to do it again--and in the Christian system, as long as they are sorry and they truly mean it, and TRY to be good--that's all that matters. THIS, according to Paul's perversion of the text. So Marcus McElhaney is not following Jesus, he is following Paul's perverted Christianity which claims you can only try to be good, you can't really be good--but it doesn't matter, because as long as you say "sorry" to Jesus, you still get to go to heaven, as hell, as he says, is, "taken off the table! And if hell is "taken off the table, then Marcus is being disingenuous when he stated that "God punishes sin." If "hell is off the table," then there are no consequences for sin.
No God does punish sin. Something all who deny God will understand the full measure of that that means. What is being forgotten is that when God saves you, you are made new. You change. But it's a process. Somethings you immediately stop in your sinning and you know it's not all you. But there are somethings that take time. For some people its acting cruelly to others out of angry - breaking the law to love others. For some people it's esteeming other higher than yourself. I'm following Jesus, because Paul followed Jesus. A believer doesn't go to heaven because of his/her own righteous but because of Jesus. He makes your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees.
But it is even worse than that. Marcus would have us think that Jesus must be a fool, since Jesus said to follow the laws and to "be perfect", so Jesus must be a fool according to Marcus since Marcus is following Paul's perverted version of Christianity that states you are under the power of sin and have no free will. Even the great Christian philosopher Pelagius understood Paul's version of Christianity led to "moral laxity." It is my guess that Jesus would NOT be pleased.
Jesus is Lord and Master. If you have Jesus, if you are born-again then you are free of sin and death. That is what Jesus taught. That is what Paul taught. Pelagius was a heretic. I wouldn't base any arguments on him. The confusion is that I didn't say we have no will of our own. We do but it's just inclined to do evil. And without Jesus we can do no better. You will die in your sins and in hell you will lift up your eyes.
To illustrate how deep this perversion runs, another Christian posted this comment on this same post. I claimed in my post, and maintain that we CAN do what is right. Keeping in line with Marcus and the Pauline version of Christianity, the following Christian commenter wrote :
" I'm sure it's a nice thought to take responsibility for your own actions, but whether you live like a saint or a devil it won't matter in the slightest."This illustrates the fact, that as a Christian, doing good or doing bad has NO RELEVANCE--for as the commenter said, that "doesn't matter" I guess because since they believe in Jesus they believe you will be rewarded with heaven, or, as Marcus stated, hell is "taken off the table" anyway, and thus, whether Christians are a saints or a devils, it makes no difference!
It has no relevance from the stand point of getting you into right standing with God. On our best day our righteousness is no better use than a used tampon. If you want to please God it makes a difference on where you put your faith - in your own good works or on Jesus. That's all I and the commentator are saying - not that you should go and do bad because it doesn't matter. Honesty please.
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. - Isaiah 64:6
Both Marcus and the Christian commenter above represent the Christian position I set out in my post, and as I argued, it is this Christian position that leads to "moral laxity" Now, the difference between me and them is that I take being a "saint" as opposed to being a "devil" as VERY serious. Which is why I live a "saintly" life. And by saintly, I mean I do not commit adultery, murder, torture young children, and so forth--I take responsibility for my actions, and I am not looking for some loophole or reward for any bad behavior.
You can't be a saint without Jesus. I don't "commit adultery, murder, torture young children, and so forth--I take responsibility for my actions". Never have. Neither would any born-again Christians live like that. Takes more than that to be a saint. But you are still a sinner - deserving hell (as do all of us). So what's the difference? Simple. Jesus isn't a loop hole. He is the only answer.
"What does it matter whether you are a saint or a devil?" Christians should ask that question to all the little girls, boys, and young women who are abused and exploited by "devils" in our society. What a silly and absurd position Christians hold--a silly position that leads people to do EVIL things.
Hey Even the comments were amusing.
- Jonathan MS Pearce
- A is for Atheist, I am a professor of religion and philosophy.
- andreas schueler
Debunking Christianity: In Defense of the Non-Ethics of Christianity
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