Recently,
James White wrote a great post regarding Dr Caner. I don't want to focus on the comments made about mistakes Caner made. Instead I'd like to point to the graphic the lists all the places
Jesus was mentioned in the
Qur'an.
Simple Mistakes, Confused Defenses
I dnt believe that this is fact. Jesus belongs only to the new testements...
ReplyDeleteDo you realize that there are 300 references to Jesus within the first 3 centuries of his birth outside of the Bible? And Qu'ran is later than those. If you don't believe Jesus is in the Qur'an go ahead and look up the references. I'm not saying the Qur'an agrees with the New Testament on details about Jesus, only that Muslims stake a claim on Jesus, yet reject what the New Testament says about him.
ReplyDeleteWith in the name of God, Peace be unto those who follow the guidance from their Lord.
ReplyDeleteMcElhaney where do you get this figure, "Do you realize that there are 300 references to Jesus within the first 3 centuries of his birth outside of the Bible?"
Where do you come up with this stuff brother?
I said 300 but the resource actually says 236 known references. My apologies for the mistake.
ReplyDeletehttp://lifeanddoctrine.blogspot.com/2008/12/historical-jesus-three-centuries-worth.html
"Do you realize that there are 300 references to Jesus within the first 3 centuries of his birth outside of the Bible?"
ReplyDeleteThis is the dumbest thing I've read in a while, no offense. But that's like counting every review of "The World According to Garp" as a evidence that T.S. Garp existed.
3 centuries Marcus? Desperate...
How many references within 3 years? That's a more imporant figure, and the answer is 0.
Additionally, I'd be wary of that website you used as your source. I noticed that there was some over counting (for example, they count both The Gospel of Mark and a fragment of the Gospel of Mark (Fayyum & Oxyrhnchus #1224) as seperate references. Also some dates were wrong. Oxyrhnchus #840 & #1224 are from the 3rd centuries at the earliest, not from 50 AD. And Clement of Alexandria wasn't even born in 70 AD.
ReplyDeleteWhat a mess...
Ryan, most historians today at least agree that Jesus exist. Your counter examples of problems with Mariano's list show just how desperate you are
ReplyDelete70-255 AD is given for the reference of Clement of Alexandria. He isn't saying that Clement was born before 70 AD. We have many varying opinions on how to date these things. But we know it's from the first 3 centuries of the common era. The full document of Mark and the fragment counts as 2 references because that is how you count manuscripts. If you want to say that they are are by the same author so they count as one...that's fine by me. Even with the diversions you point to as a problem that's still over 200 references to Jesus from the first 3 centuries of the common era. And by the way can you name anyone else from antiquity with that many attestations within 400 years of their birth? Nope.
Julius Caesar.
ReplyDeleteAlso known as "son of god". Ironically...
ReplyDeleteMarcus; serious question, why do you think any attestations after 50 years of an event are important?
ReplyDeleteOr for that matter, why are attestations of attestations of an attestation count for anything? And those are at least 1/2 of your list.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'd be VERY curious to hear a more thourough explaination on how something written by a guy born in 150 CE could be dated to 70 CE. Enjoy!
ReplyDelete1. There are not 200 attestation to Julius Ceasar and what he did within 3 centuries of his birth. If you disagree...show me your list. I'll wait.
ReplyDelete2. There are attestations of Julius Ceasar within 50 years of his life. There are many for Jesus.
3. You don't even have early attestations of early attestations for Julius Caesar for anyone other than Jesus Christ, yet you think think that what we have about Julius is historically reliable.
4. I took the ranges of dates from Mariano's list to mean that those are most likely dates from which references came from. From what I understand not everyone agrees that Clement of Alexandria was born in 150 AD.
5. Feel free to check the references if you want to know more. But I doubt you do.
Marcus; it's laughable, there are countless "attestations"* to Julius Ceasar during the 2 centuries after his death. Of course, you have to use you and Marino's VERY, VERY loose definition of "attestation" to come to this conclusion.
ReplyDelete*a commentary on an attestation counts as an attestation (i.e. you really SHOULD throw out everything but the new testament and Josephus, if you knew what an attestation actually was).
Ryan where is your list for Attestations of Julius Ceasar? I'm waiting to laugh.
ReplyDeleteLook it up yourself, a consolidated version is not widely available because retards don't obsess over Julius Caesar, but I'm sure a "smart" guy like you will have no problem finding what you need.
ReplyDeleteRyan, you made an assertion. You said that there are countless attestations to Julius Caesar within the first 200 years of his death - more than we have of Jesus Christ. I've read several sources that say opposite. I provided a link to such a resource. You have failed to provide single piece of evidence substantiating your claim. Put up or shut up.
ReplyDeleteMarcus; first you need to correctly define "attestation", which if you did, your "sources" fall apart. We've been over this...
ReplyDeleteRyan , you made assertions. the burden of proof is on you.
ReplyDelete