John Loftus reduced to absurdity—without apology, by his own admission | True Freethinker
Thursday, June 24, 2010
John Loftus reduced to absurdity—without apology, by his own admission | True Freethinker
John Loftus reduced to absurdity—without apology, by his own admission | True Freethinker
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John summed up Paul's problem perfectly at the end.
ReplyDeletePaul "But what you have done is admit that you have absurdities in your world view…"
John "That’s because I’m intellectually honest enough to admit it and you are to dumb to know it."
Is it Paul that has a problem? It seems way more silly to me to simultaneously believe something is absurd and true simultaneously. If something is absurd why believe it? Neither Paul nor I consider the claims of the Bible as absurd or not reasonable. Believing something you believe that is less absurd doesn't make your more correct.
ReplyDeleteNo, certainly you and Paul don't think the claims of the bible are absurd, although John cited three examples that Paul refused to acknowlegde. I think that's what earned him the "too dumb" comment.
ReplyDeleteJohn and most atheists are happy to admit we don't know things and that other things seem absurd. Just because you can't admit something is absurd, doesn't mean it's not.
Likewise, just because you think you know something, doesn't mean you do. Again, that's something we're willing to admit, and you are not. It's handy for you to score points in a debate by claiming a certainity none of us have, but it's not the truth.
Ryan, Christians freely admit that we don't know everything. The Bible even says we don't know everything nor is everything given to us to know. The things you, John, and other atheists charge us with saying that we know that you don't know and no one could is a cop out. We know God because He has chosen to reveal himself to humanity. Is it our fault that you have chosen to reject what we find so obvious? No it's not. I can't take credit for any of it. But in this time in this culture there is no excuse for not recognizing that God exists. The fault is yours. Not God's.
ReplyDeleteJust because you think the Bible is absurd doesn't make it absurd. Just means you don't agree with it. Let's be honest. There are plenty of true, counter-intuitive facts and observations that are true but seem silly. For example: How can light behave as particle and a wave at the same time? But it does. As a matter of fact Quantum Mechanics says that everything can be looked at as particles and waves! Try telling the most intelligent scientist that 200 years ago and see if you would not have been committed to an insane assylum.
Marcus; a man living in the belly of a fish and talking donkeys are absurd. Virgin births and resurrections are absurd. Believing that four contridictory accounts can be infaliable and tell a unified story is absurd.
ReplyDeleteI cannot know what someone else experienced, but I believe God revealed himself to you as much as I beleive he revealed himself to Mohammed Atta.
Ryan: Can you prove that Noah did not happen? Can you prove that a donkey did not talk? Can you prove that Mary was not a Virgin when Jesus was born? Can you prove that Jesus was not resurrected? Can you prove that the gospels are contradictory? Nope. In each case you can argue against details and even assert that you don't believe them. You are welcomed to that, but you cannot show them as being completely false and lies. You say you cannot know what someone else has experienced yet you claim that the things the bible says happened didn't. You need to make up your mind. I didn't claim that god solely revealed himself to you. i am arguing that you have enough evidence to plainly see there is a God. Romans 1 is correct.
ReplyDeleteYes, cut open a dead donkey's throat and take a look. They cannot talk.
ReplyDeleteThe geological record proves there was no GLOBAL flood.
I can show that the resurrection was a later addition to the narrative.
I can show that the "virgin birth" is the result of a bad reading of Hebrew.
As for proving the gospels are contridictory, just read them, but not each one from start to finish, read a story in mark, then find it and read it in the other gospesl. When you read them like that, the contriditions stick out like sore thumbs.
Ryan, The donkey's speech was a miracle. God did something out of the ordinary. you cannot prove that it didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteNot all experts agree with you about the geological evidence of a global flood.
I know what you are talking about the virgin birth and the "mistake" in hebrew. The problem is that the Septugint plainly uses the word virgin and it is how the Jews who translated Isaiah 9:6 understood the prophecy. I think they understood Hebrew better than you.
As for the Gospels: Point out one thing that is contradictory without displaying how much you really don't know.
Marcus; Paul Bunyon digging the grand canyon with his axe was a miracle. Paul and Babe did something out of the ordinary. you cannot prove that it didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteRyan, you can't prove that it did happen! There is plenty of evidence that explains how the grand canyon was made. I'm willing to accept that because I've looked it up and researched it myself and seems sounds. I have no reason to doubt geography. There is no evidence that Paul Bunyan or Babe existed any more than there is evidence that Superman lives. The evidences for the Bible is a whole lot stronger and not worth comparison. Nice try though.
ReplyDeleteMarcus said "you can't prove that it did happen!"
ReplyDeleteReally? You want to go there?
Ryan, if you can prove that Paul Bunyan's butt carved out the Grand Canyon, I'd be greatly impressed. Yeah, i wanna go there. Try and prove that. I double-dog dare you.
ReplyDeleteI'll prove it when you prove the resurrection.
ReplyDeletePS: I'm done posting here, not because you got me or I want the last word, but because your site is a major drain on all three computers I have access to. Not sure if you have too much content or if it's some other problem, but it's a MAJOR pain to post here. See you at Loftus' site.
Ryan, I've got evidence for the Resurrection. It's all ever this site. You have no evidence Paul Bunyan carved out the Grand Canyon with his butt. That is the problem you have introduced
ReplyDelete