Mariano, has turned out a great post discussing the validity of Miracles in the Bible. I think everyone should read it!Atheism is Dead: Is the Bible Skeptical About Miracles? – Lazarus Comes Forth
Someone has anonymously commented that Pantheism is a better explanation for miracles than any theistic system and posted the following video.
After I finished laughing I realized that this fantasy must be addressed. The whole argument that since all theistic religions claim authentication by miracles, none can be true because if there was only one God then only one religion would have miracles and answered prayers. The Bible answers this charge in Deuteronomy 13:1-4.
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
God clear says that He allows false prophet and false religions to have miracles of their own. Miracles alone cannot be used to validate a religion or system of belief. Another good example is how Egyptian magicians were able to duplicate a few of the Plagues God brought upon Egypt to bring about the Exodus.
In addition I don't think that just the existence of miracles is enough to consider. We should consider the quality of the miracles not just quantity. For example name another miracle, from any other religion, rivaling the parting of the Red Sea! Or the one Mariano started out with in his essay - The raising of Lazarus from the dead after three days! Or the Miracle of the resurrection - Jesus predicted it and executed His own resurrection saving all of us who believe on Him! What could be greater! It was like a base ball player telling when, where, and how he is going to knock the ball out of the park and by how many runs they will win by. Nobody is like Jesus!
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There's really nothing to respond to since your attack is on pantheism and not pandeism; pandeism supersedes both pantheism and theism, and so is correct.... pandeism dispenses first and foremost with the idea of a sick, twisted God who would "test" people by tricking them, and then punish those who fall for the tricks.... pandeism explains the very existence of the theistic texts which put forth miracles, in other words what is said to have happened in the Bible is best explained by pandeism being true....
ReplyDeleteSome theists naturally are committed to their ideas of a trickster Gods.... this is possibly out of fear that their Gods will do something evil if they let up in their worship, since these Gods have had so many evil acts attributed to them (drowning children, sending bears to kill children, sending plagues to kill children, sending children to be burned and tortured forever in a Hell)....
Pandeism is ascendant exactly because it dispenses with that kind of absurdness....
God does not trick people and maliciously deceive people so your objection is boundless. That is not attacking the God of the Bible.The God of the Bible does no evil. The problems you are bringing up have to do with justice.
ReplyDeleteThe bear did not kill children...they were young adults. And your problem with children dying is ignoring the fact that they could have been spared if not for the disobedience of their parents.
I agree that there is a difference between "panthesim" and "pandeism" but neither do what you alleged
No one would worship an evil God, naturally, which is why you've allowed your God to trick you into believing that he's not evil.... I noticed you have no objection to the claim of your God drowning children, killing children with plagues, and sending children to eternal Hell as punishment for whatever it was he tricked their parents into doing....
ReplyDeleteMaybe your God is so full of himself that he doesn't even realize he's evil? And maybe your God is a liar, and you ought not trust him when he says he's not evil (isn't that the first thing a deceiver will tell you?)
And as for the difference between pandeism and pantheism, the difference itself is that pandeism accounts for and explains away the errors of the Bible, while pantheism does not.... maybe you have an errant understanding of exactly what pandeism is (read up on your Eriugena!!)
God has not tricked children or their parent in to anything. Pandeism cannot explain away the errors of the Bible because there are no errors. God cannot lie and you can't blame Him for any of the consequences of sin. Pantheism denies the personhood and being of God and equates the creation with God. Pandesim assumes that at one time God was a single being and now is the same as the creation and may some day be a single being again. Both of them are completely against what the Bible and science teaches about nature of God and the universe.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny about the video you presented argues that Theistic religions are wrong because miracle and answered prayers are not unique to a single one of them. I respond with a reason why, not consistent with Pantheism or Pandeism (they are not the same but are similar), and you say nothing about it. Instead you accuse God with the "problem of evil" for which your worldview does not answer. Christian Theism based on the Bible is the best answer.
ReplyDeleteYou say "We should consider the quality of the miracles not just quantity" -- almost every theistic formulation, Greek, Norse, Mayan, Chinese, and throughout Africa, describes the very creation of the world itself, which is a substantially greater miracle than any of the parlor tricks described in the Bible, not of which require an infinite and all-knowing God.... And the miracles exactly as described in the Bible can be explained by either theism or pandeism, but pandeism does not require an irrational God that is so imperfect that it must constantly murder and otherwise tinker with a flawed Creation....
ReplyDeleteBut pandeism does answer the problem of evil, which is an inherent flaw in the Biblical account; it determines the Creator to be unconcerned with "good" and "evil" but instead with the existence of experience within the Universe -- thus it has no moral obligation to avoid the creation of evil (which clearly does exist)....
You mention science also. Show me one thing in all of scientific knowledge that supports the Bible but does not support pandeism.
Prove that the God of the Bible is "irrational" and that the creation is flawed as God created it? The Bible teaches the that God created the universe out of nothing and none of the myths you pointed to make the same claim. Scientific evidence points to that creation. The problem of evil is us. We are evil not the creation. If God got rid of evil, he'd have to get rid of all of us.
ReplyDelete