FacePalm Quote of The Day #14: Debunking Christianity: The Problem of Belief

John Loftus has posted an interesting but failed attempt to debunk salvific faith. Here is his argument.

Here's something that calls out for an explanation and no amount of Bible verses will help. What is the content of salvific faith (i.e. the kind of belief that saves a person)? What must someone believe to be saved? Simple? Not so fast. A child who confesses Jesus is lord is saved, right? I dare anyone to ask a ten year old what she thinks of Jesus, what it means to say he is lord, whether she thinks he is God, God-in-the-flesh, the 2nd person of the trinity, or a really really big guy, and so on and so forth. Ask her to define each of her words. Anyone can say "Jesus is lord" then. Does doing so save a person unless said person has the correct detailed theology that goes with it? There is no doubt in my mind that a child holds to heretical ideas when asked about them. OR, she's expressing words she has no clue as to their meaning. But if so, then there are surely professing Christians of all ages, probably most of them, who think they are saved but are not, and this could be........YOU! Since this must be the case if one is saved by faith, this is a barbaric way to base a person's salvation upon--that not only must believers express the right words but also have the proper understanding of them.

So why does this deserve a "FacePalm"? The Bible does tell us what you have to believe to be saved. You can know exactly what it takes to be Christian - saved, sanctified, born-again, and Holy Spirit filled.

5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." - Romans 10:5-11

Another passage that explains very well what you need to know in order to be saved:

29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family. - Acts 16:29-34

Neither of these passages are opaque or difficult. Lets' do one more - one for the Holy Spirit.

23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins."
25 "Who are you?" they asked.
"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world." - John 8: 25-26

I know a lot of people wonder what about the conflicting doctrines and view points? The Bible has the answer for this one too.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. - Romans 14:13-22

The Word of God literally has everything you need to know in order to live a life dedicated to God. When I read something like what John Loftus said in this quote it makes me wonder if they can read.
Debunking Christianity: The Problem of Belief

Answering Atheism - books, page 3 of 3 | True Freethinker

Here is Mariano's third post summarizing great book resources about answering Atheism. Awesome list!

Answering Atheism - books, page 3 of 3 | True Freethinker

FacePalm Quote of the Day #13: Jesus' Resurrection, Debunked in One Page.pdf - Google Docs

John Loftus pointed out a page by Chris Hallquist in which he gives 8 points for why he does not believe that the Resurrection did not happen. Hallquist seems to think that he has compelling and gripping evidence against the Resurrection but frankly there is nothing new here in the slightest. Here is his list

Jesus' Resurrection, Debunked in One Page.pdf - Google Docs
I have my own list. It's really nothing new these "objection" have been brought up and refuted many times before.
1. Christianity's endurance for the past 2000 years is evidence that Jesus indeed was raised from the dead. Why? Simple Christianity is based on extraordinary claims those claims would have had to believed beyond doubt enough for people to completely change their lives. Look, neither Paul and James believed Jesus was Resurrected until they met the Resurrected Christ. IT changed their lives. Meeting Jesus today continues to change lives. There are few examples of historical sources from antiquity being dated within a century of when the events took place.
2. Hallquist is being disingenuous. Not all Biblical scholars think that there is every good reason to believe that the names of the authors attached to the Gospels wrote those Gospels.
3. Hallquist may think that the Gospels are mere anonymous tracts but many scholars disagree with him. On top of that the New Testament, including the Gospels, were written too early after the events to be explained away as legendary.
4. Paul knew several (if not all) of the witnesses he mentions personally! I'm familiar with the claims of the Book of Mormon and they are in no way equal to the miracles Jesus did. In addition, The Bible doesn't tell use to believe anything solely on the basis of Miracles. See Deuteronomy 13. Demons do miracle too.
5. Jesus disciples were in the perfect situation and circumstances to know if what they were preaching were true. I think it is strong evidence that they believed that what they were saying is true. If Jesus did not rise...there still would have been a body 50 days after the crucifixion why not just produce it? Simple. Everyone who was there at Pentecost knew the tomb was empty.
6 and 7. I'm going to cover the hallucination hypothesis this way. None of the apostles believed that Jesus rose even though he told them he would. The last thing they expected was to see Jesus alive again. Granted one might argue that Peter and the boys would be comforted by such an hallucination, but that does not explain Paul, James, or Jude who never believed Jesus before they met Jesus after the Resurrection.
Point 8 is just a commercial...and not a good one.
I'm amazed that people keep bringing up these objections and can't see how bad they are. I mean where is the "A" material?

Answering Muslims: U.K. Muslim Cleric Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed Declares That Rape Is Not Possible in Marriage

I agree with David Wood. It doesn't make sense to argue that women are equal to men but must provide sex to their husbands no matter how they feel or think. If a husband and wife are "one flesh" than raping your wife is akin to suicide. It makes no sense.

Answering Muslims: U.K. Muslim Cleric Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed Declares That Rape Is Not Possible in Marriage

Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 2 | True Freethinker

Mariano has posted the second part of his  answering common objection from  an atheist regarding the Resurrection.. Good post.

Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 2 | True Freethinker

Related articles

• A Foxhole Atheist's Response to Fort Bragg (friendlyatheist.com)

Answering Atheism - books, page 2 of 3 | True Freethinker

Here is the second part of Mariano's series summarizing good book resources for answering atheism.

Answering Atheism - books, page 2 of 3 | True Freethinker

PZ Myers and Atheist Cosmology | True Freethinker

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I've been inspired to start a new series of posts spotlighting articles that contain quotes that are so good that it overturns a quote that deserves a "FacePalm" (represented above). For those of you who don't know the cultural significance of a "Fistbump" (see the left), it is a physical gesture to convey success and approval. First here is the quote that deserves a FacePalm courtesy of PZ Myers.

The universe is cold and uncaring. You may be grateful that you weren't vaporized by a meteor falling out of the sky this year, but there's no agent out there who will feel pleased that you noticed, and the fact of your general relief that your existence continues will not be a factor in the motion of space rocks in the next year.

There is so many things wrong with this quote, however I think Mariano Grinbank put his finger on the main issue. This is why his article deserves the Fistbump of the day:

In my essay The Misanthropic Principle – How Atheism Robed Me I wrote that atheism essentially urges us to believe that,

Everything in the entire universe—as parts and the universe as a whole—was arbitrary…We should never close our eyes to the wonders of the designed universe and its life just because some have erected a facade of scientific respectability around their chosen worldview philosophy.

It was pointed out to me that I misspelled one word in the title to the essay: I wrote “Robed” but I meant to write “Robbed” (including that English is my second language and that I am dyslexic or simply a misspelling).
Atheism robs us by demanding that we restrict our thinking and stop short of following evidence where it leads.
Musing upon my misspelling; I concluded that while atheism robs the universe of meaning, God robes it with meaning. Atheism robbed it but God robed it.

Yes, Mariano, you were so right! My favorite part is:

I concluded that while atheism robs the universe of meaning, God robes it with meaning. Atheism robbed it but God robed it.

Genius! Yes, God still inspires pure genius today.
PZ Myers and Atheist Cosmology | True Freethinker

Apologetics 315: Alan Shlemon & Cecili Chadwick Debate: Should Abortion Be Illegal?

The debate may be short but the topic is of vital importance: Should Abortion be Legal? Personally, I've come to the conclusion that would is lawful should be moral. However that is hardly the case all the time. Abortion may be legal today but it has never been nor will it ever be moral in any and all circumstances. I appreciate Brian Auten for posting this debate. Follow the link to get links to the video and audio.

Apologetics 315: Alan Shlemon & Cecili Chadwick Debate: Should Abortion Be Illegal?

Answering Atheism - books, page 1 of 3 | True Freethinker

Mariano has started a series of essays listing books that do a great job as resources in answering atheism.


Answering Atheism - books, page 1 of 3 | True Freethinker

Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 1 | True Freethinker

Mariano is a true professional. The subject of what kind of body believers have been promised by God is often discussed and sometimes denounced. I enjoyed this article by Mariano and he very carefully discusses what does Paul mean in 1st Corinthians 15. People like Marcus Borg, Robert Price, and other who deny what the scriptures plainly teach: Jesus rose from the dead physically and the promise to those who put their faith in him is that we will rise too.

Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 1 | True Freethinker

Answering Atheism - video, part 3 of 3 | True Freethinker

Mariano has posted the third part of his series summarizing great videos about about Apologetics.

Answering Atheism - video, part 3 of 3 | True Freethinker

Related articles

• Finite Truth Of Atheism (crispysea.blogspot.com)
• John Shook, Ph.D.: For Atheists and Believers, Ignorance Is No Excuse (huffingtonpost.com)

THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: Rick Sanchez Apologizes: "I Screwed Up."

Of Course Rick Sanchez apologized. He wants to work again. Besides that I think he was wrong about Jon Stewart.


THE INTERSECTION | MADNESS & REALITY: Rick Sanchez Apologizes: "I Screwed Up."

Obama has book thrown at him in Philadelphia; Naked man arrested | Raw Story

This world is literally crazy. A man threw a book at President Obama yesterday at a rally at Philadelphia. I'm amazed! The man says that he meant no harm he only hoped the President would "read" it. I don't buy it. Anyone dumb enough to think that it's okay to throw anything at the President of the United States, couldn't possible be smart enough to read a book worth reading. I mean how does that make sense. And what's with people streaking in front of the President of the United States? I mean I think that if a person threw a book at any President on American soil in the past they would have gone to jail. Crazy!


Obama has book thrown at him in Philadelphia; Naked man arrested | Raw Story

Debunking Christianity: God as an Explanation vs. a God Who Acts in the World

It's amazing to me. John Loftus keeps making arguments that I can't believe that anyone finds moving. Take this blog post for example. I'm going to comment after each paragraph to explain why I think it doesn't make sense.

This is a distinction that makes a difference. It also makes a great deal of sense. Believers think that if their concept of God can explain the cosmos then automatically ipso facto they have arrived at the God they believe in, who acted in the world. Nope. Not by a long shot. For a god might explain the cosmos and yet not be Yahweh. And even if Yahweh is that god, he might not have raised Jesus from the dead. And even if Yahweh raised Jesus from the dead, he might not be the classical theistic God of Anselm.

Wonders of Wonders. I think Loftus makes a valid point. Many proofs of God don't go far enough to show that the God that created everything is in fact the God of the Bible. That is why the second part is so important. If such a God has not intervened in history or has acted in the world than it can't be the God of the Bible. The Bible affirms that the God who gave us his word has acted in the world many times and in many ways and continues to do so. But it's more than that. The Bible tells us that it is only by God's continued will that the universe holds together. IF that is not acting in the universe then what is? Look at what the Bible says

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.  Hebrews 1:1-3

Skeptics do not think believers have shown that a God explanation is needed for the cosmos. We think it is an unnecessary hypothesis at best. So we need to see a God who acts in the world. We want evidence that he does. We want to see it. We want to see him do something verifiable, anything.

John Loftus is an apostate. I would say that all apostates have in common the belief that God has not acted in their lives. I would take issue with that because on the most fundamental level we exist because God has acted. But I will agree that they have not seen or understood that God has acted in their lives. No one can be saved or believe unless they have seen God act in the lives. God has to literally get in your face and get your attention or you will not ever believe. You can't do it on your own when ever you get ready. At the time, anyone who is reading this, or has ever had the gospel proclaimed to them has been given the opportunity. God has intervened in your life so that you can here the Gospel. The Gospel is that Jesus died for sinners and if you put your faith in Him you will be saved from the ultimate and conscious torment of being separated from God forever. You can find your ultimate purpose - the one that God has designed for you. If you don't see that it's because you haven't seen that God has intervened your life yet. The Bible tells us:

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
 "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."- Acts 17:24-31

Christians will retort that their God did act by raising Jesus from the dead. But that was so long ago, in a superstitious pre-scientific era of the past. There is no way such an event can be verified with the historical tools available to us, as I wrote about here. Even if God did act in the historical past there is no way we can know that he did.

You can outright know it when God intervenes in your own life. You can also know God intervenes because we know that there are fulfilled prophecies in the scripture. We see many of them being fulfilled today. How did the the scripture writers know? Simple, God told them what He was going to do...not just what would happen.

In any case, why doesn't God act now in any objective verifiable manner? I don't even have to say in advance what it would take for me to believe. God should already know. But he just doesn't do it. He supposedly knew what it took to convince Abraham, Moses, Gideon, Mary the mother of Jesus, John the Baptist's father, doubting Thomas, and Saul on the Damascus Road. He acted on their behalf. Doing so apparently did not abrogate their freedom. So why doesn't he act today?

God does know what it would take. And I believe that He has given you all the evidence you need but people have rejected that evidence. God does act today. I know know because I have seen Him intervene in my life and the lives of others.

The best explanation is that God is a figment of the imagination. He doesn't act because he doesn't exist. He is no different in this respect then the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Christians bristle at these comparisons, I know. But given that God is not a good explanation of the cosmos they are apt and well-deserved ones.

The comparisons don't work because Christians know that God has acted in the world and continues to act in the lives of everyone whether you understand or perceive it. What has the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn done for you lately? ME? Nothing. However Jesus died for my sins, was raised to life for my justification. He healed my body. Protects my family from all kinds of dangers - seen and unseen. When something bad does happen - he makes it turn out for my good. Gave me wonderful parents and family. Gave me beautiful children. Given me an education and a job I would do for free. He made a universe with more things to keep me studying and learning than I can absorb in a lifetime. He is the one who have been with me no matter what and no matter what happens. Jesus is my Lord...my God....my Savior. Without him Life doesn't and can't make sense. He has done so much for me that there is no way I can recount it all. "Well deserved"? Yes, Jesus deserves our Love and Worship.







Debunking Christianity: God as an Explanation vs. a God Who Acts in the World

Apologetics 315: Apologist Interview: Justin Brierley

I have no idea how Brian is snagging these interview!!! This week he interviews Justin Brierley. I listen to his radio broadcast Unbelievable? frequently and greatly enjoy it! This is a great interview!


Apologetics 315: Apologist Interview: Justin Brierley

The Science of Iron Man 2 Liveblog

I would really like to go this! However, I won't be able to go. Fortunately, Marvel will live blog the event and hopefully we can get a hold of a video!

This Wednesday, October 13, at 8:00pm PST, the Science & Entertainment Exchange and the California Institute of Technology will present a special panel discussion, "The Science of 'Iron Man 2,'" that will look at the real-world technology behind Tony Stark's greatest invention.
The panel will bring together some of the film's creators with experts in the fields of computer science and theoretical particle physics, and Marvel.com will be there live to bring you coverage of the event as it happens!
So bookmark this page and come back Wednesday, October 13 at 8:00pm PST to follow along, and check out the full list of scheduled panelists right here.

Delve into the science behind 'Iron Man 2' with a special panel discussion at the California Institute of Technology this Wed | Marvel.com News | Marvel.com

How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2 | True Freethinker

I want to point out that Mariano has posted a response to the alleged Biblical contradiction regarding to what really happened when Jesus entered Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. What was Jesus riding on? One of the things I really like about Mariano's articles he is able to deal with Biblical scripture from a Jewish perspective and not just a Christian one. He shows that there doesn't have to be conflict. Follow the link for the first part of his article. There have been several artist interpretations And I have learned to trust what the Bible says not what people have illustrated.

How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2 | True Freethinker

Answering Atheism - video, part 2 of 3 | True Freethinker

Here is Mariano's second article summarizing a list of video apologetic resources!

Answering Atheism - video, part 2 of 3 | True Freethinker

Related articles

• John Shook, Ph.D.: For Atheists and Believers, Ignorance Is No Excuse (huffingtonpost.com)

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: The Gospel for Muslims

I like this video. I always enjoy David Woods work. In this video he give a presentation of the gospel that answers common questions Muslims ask. I'm grateful for this posting.


Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: The Gospel for Muslims

FacePalm Quote of the Day #13 - We are all Atheists.

Uploaded with ImageShack.usI just really can't stand the following ubiquitous quote that has become a drumbeat of so many atheists. It's a silly argument for so many reasons but it comes up so much so often I thought a catch all post would be helpful. What bothers me about it is that when Atheists use it they act like they have fired the winning shot. As if there is no answer or comeback for such a "devastating" blow. It's not about winning an argument it's about letting people know that there really is a "heaven to gain and a hell to shun". But more than that God has a purpose in creating you and you can only find and fulfill that purpose through God. It's about knowing God as God is not what you want God to be - that is idolatry. Here is the quote:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When 
you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"

Dr. James White have given excellent responses to this "less than moving" argument.

James White's answer

One thing that I think many people ignore is the point that this argument attempts to re-define what "atheist" means. "Atheism" isn't a non-belief. "Atheism" does not mean that an atheists doesn't believe in some Gods. "Athesim" means that one does not believe in any Gods. You can't side-step this by pleading "soft" atheism because it's historically a non-definition.

Chosen By God: Regeneration Precedes Faith

Here is a great article that quotes R.C. Sproul about what Election really is. I agree with how Dr Sproul explains how divine election works because it's Biblical. Everyone is hostile to God before we are called and drawn to Christ by the Father. There is no other explanation for how hearts of stone are replaced with hearts of flesh.
Chosen by God: Regeneration Precedes Faith

Answering Atheism - video, part 1 of 3 | True Freethinker

Mariano has followed up his three-part blog post summarizing great audios with the beginning of a three part post summarizing great videos! When God blesses He pulls out all the stops.

Answering Atheism - video, part 1 of 3 | True Freethinker

Answering Muslims: God of the Old Testament: Jesus or Allah?

The Answering Muslims blog uploaded an interesting debate between Abdullah Kunde (a Muslim) and Samuel Green (a Christian) from August 2010. The debate topic was Jesus or Allah - Who was the God of the Old Testament. I highly suggest going to the blog post and read the comments section as well as watching the debate videos!











Answering Muslims: God of the Old Testament: Jesus or Allah?

Apologetics 315: Resources for Getting Apologetics in Your Church

Well the series of articles over at Apologetics 315 has completed. So many great articles and ideas about how to get Apologetics into your local congregation. I have to thank Brian Auten for putting it together and inviting me to contribute an article. He has completed the ebook and has made it available in many formats. He has posted a link to the ebook on the blog post I have linked to. He has even sweeten the deal by providing links to several resources that were mentioned during the series. This page gives anyone who want to start doing Apologetics in their local congregation a great starting point.
Apologetics 315: Resources for Getting Apologetics in Your Church