John Loftus plugged Jonathan Pearce's new book called
Free Will?: An investigation into whether we have free will, or whether I was always going to write this book. A facepalm is inevitable when atheists attempt to discuss such things. They have no point of reference. They deny that
God intervenes in people's lives and history period because they deny the reality of his existence. They can't
know that. As a Christian, even if one is to deny God's work in history and creation, the fact that God intervened and continues to do so in my life in a way recognizable to me is irrefutable. One might argue that they haven't seen evidence that God intervenes - making one an agnostic. Loftus was christian enough to pass on an excerpt from what Pearce sent him and I quoted from it to show what I am referring to.
I have to confess, it seems like an awful lot of interventional effort was expended by God in the direction of the Israelites, and their seemingly petty (on the scale of the history of the world) politics. The rest of the world seemed to exist perfectly well, developing their own moral and legal systems, co-operative farming techniques, civilisations and cultures, without the necessity for God to intervene. And they did this more freely, by definition of the fact that there was no influence from external agencies, from God / Jesus / the Holy Spirit.
It's a bold statement to say that God did not intervene in any of the rest of the world outside of Israel during antiquity. How would you know that? God plainly says He is in control of everything - not just with what concerns Israel. A simple example: God claims that Cyrus is his agent centuries before Cyrus is even born.
I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.” - Isaiah 45:13
Cyrus was the emperor of the
Persian Empire who ended the 70 year exile of the Jews after the
destruction of Jerusalem and the first Temple in
586 BC. Isaiah was written in the
8th Century BC.
Another Example:
5 “Look at the nations and watch—
and be utterly amazed.
For I am going to do something in your days
that you would not believe,
even if you were told.
6 I am raising up the Babylonians,
that ruthless and impetuous people,
who sweep across the whole earth
to seize dwellings not their own.
7 They are a feared and dreaded people;
they are a law to themselves
and promote their own honor.
8 Their horses are swifter than leopards,
fiercer than wolves at dusk.
Their cavalry gallops headlong;
their horsemen come from afar.
They fly like an eagle swooping to devour;
9 they all come intent on violence.
Their hordes advance like a desert wind
and gather prisoners like sand.
10 They mock kings
and scoff at rulers.
They laugh at all fortified cities;
by building earthen ramps they capture them.
11 Then they sweep past like the wind and go on—
guilty people, whose own strength is their god.”
Habakkuk 1:5-11
And here is one of my favorite:
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”- Acts 17: 24-31
And another one love:
34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”
36 At the same time that my sanity was restored, my honor and splendor were returned to me for the glory of my kingdom. My advisers and nobles sought me out, and I was restored to my throne and became even greater than before. 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble. - Daniel 4:34-37
Yeah, I know what the objection is: "You can't prove the Bible is true by quoting the Bible". I'm not. I'm demonstrating that the Bible does not make the claim Pearce is making. The other thing that truly require a facepalm is one of the comments!
God giving humans free will then disavowing responsibility is like one of us giving a child dynamite to play with, waiting for him to blow himself up, then saying, "It isn't
my fault!
I didn't light the match!"
As coherent as I'm sure it is, it won't convince any fundies. The Arminians (if there are any left) will refuse to accept it, while the Calvinists (which is most of them) will just assume that physiology is one of the methods God uses to program us either to accept or reject him. - Cypher.
Why? If most Christians on the planet are Catholic (as so many atheists love to point out) then there is no way that most Christians are Calvinists. Most Protestants are not even Calvinists!!!! I'd like to know who this guy talks to. suggested that Pearce get in contact and debate
Matt Slick and James White. That I would like to see!!! Pearce being in the UK is not a problem!!! Anyone can use Skype (for free) to call Dr. White's web cast Tuesdays and Thursdays 10 am and 3 pm PST respectively!!! I know he'd be more than happy to dialogue on this subject! Matt Slick also. I'll be looking forward to that!
Debunking Christianity: Jonathan Pearce's New Book on Free Will
, which I’ll call 
