Has marriage evolved? | True Freethinker
Wednesday, May 16, 2012
What Kind of Geek are You: The Sacred Order of Geeks
If you could put yourself in one of these categories, which one would it be?
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Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Fistbump of the day - What had happen' was.....: My Common Sense is Tingling: Marriage Equals… | The Angry Black Woman
I thank God for my brother-in-Christ Mariano Grinbank. He sent me the following e-mail.The post-in-question is:
Dear brother,
I am preparing a series on that preposterous “Marriage =” graphic and noticed that you wrote, “the Bible does mandate that if a man rapes a virgin he has to marry her.”I would urge you to reconsider as this is simply not the case. The Biblical punishment for rape is the death penalty.I will run it down very quickly and then give you a link to the details.Deuteronomy 22:28-29 pertains to different litigious, judicial scenarios and so ch. 22 envisages various scenarios from adultery and rape to un-married consensual sex. Verses 28-29 deal with consensual sex between two unmarried people:If a man comes upon a maiden that is not betrothed, takes her and has relations with her, and their deed is discovered, the man who had relations with her shall pay the girl's father fifty silver shekels and take her as his wife, because he has deflowered her. Moreover, he may not divorce her as long as he lives.The Hebrew “taphas” refers to catching, handling, taking hold, grasping, etc. and “shakab” refers to laying down. He comes across her and they come together in consensual sexual relations, this is clear from the context of all of the scenarios within the chapter. In fact, verses 25-27 deal with an actual rape and so “taphas” is not used but rather, “chazaq” which is to force.Verses 28-29 are basically about what we would call a shotgun wedding.Here is a rundown of all of the relevant portions of the chapter.Deu 22:22 "If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die--the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.This is adultery.Deu 22:23-24 "If a young woman [who is] a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.A betrothed woman who had consensual unmarried sex. That “she did not cry out in the city” means that if she had been attacked by a rapist she would have cried out and would have been heard within the close quarters of the city.Deu 22:25-27 "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the young woman; [there is] in the young woman no sin [deserving] of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so [is] this matter. For he found her in the countryside, [and] the betrothed young woman cried out, but [there was] no one to save her.This is rape. He accosted her outside the city “in the countryside” where she could not be heard when she cried for help “cried out, but [there was] no one to save her.” Thus, only the rapist is executed.Deu 22:28-29 "If a man finds a young woman [who is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.We think that the particular translation of “seizes her” is force but it is not as noted above in the Hebrew differences.Here are some of the details:
What had happen' was.....: My Common Sense is Tingling: Marriage Equals… | The Angry Black Woman
I didn't even realize that I had made this mistake. I thank God for laying it on Mariano's heart to help me out. In retrospect and in light of Mariano's explanation I wish I had written:
"...the Bible mandate that if a man has consensual sex with a virgin girl, he has to marry her and not divorce her." Mariano has been much clearer than I was in this sentence and has managed to help me see the scripture even clearer. Deuteronomy 22:23-24 can't be referring to rape.
Saturday, May 12, 2012
FacePlant of the Day - Debunking Christianity: God is Love (But He Is Also Just)
Biblical scholars have looked at the Hebrew word for justice (mishpat) and concluded that it is basically equivalent to mercy. Nonetheless see what you think:
Let's side step the really bad twisting and misrepresentation of what God has done and why and instead focus on the really underlying misunderstanding both Loftus and this video have about what "Love" is. You can tell that anyone who says that "God is love (but He is also just)" does not know what they are talking about. Justice and love are not mutually exclusive. Our society messes this up. According to the Bible, we see that God is Love and Just (not "but"). Not just this, God is merciful. So the problem is that today without God we can not truly understand what Love, Justice, and Mercy truly are.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:5-8
People today think that unconditional love means that you let other people do what ever they want and be what ever they want to be as long as they don't hurt themselves and others. This is stupid because none of us is qualified or able to determine what is best for ourselves let alone anyone else. I'd rather know what our creator says is best for us than what I or anyone else thinks.
My own Biblical research has shown me that the Hebrew word "hesed" is most often translated "mercy" in the KJV and "love" in NIV. What does "hesed" mean? The meaning of "Hesed" as well as the rest of "Hebrew" must depend on context. You won't find a meaning that equated Hesed with denying the authority of God and "following your own heart".
Debunking Christianity: God is Love (But He Is Also Just)
Thursday, May 10, 2012
'Avengers Assemble' damage estimated at $160 billion | Film & TV News | NME.COM
And now, the Hollywood Reporter has called in the experts to estimate the financial cost of the catastrophe.
Reaching out to the Kinetic Analysis Corp, they have predicted that the physical damage to the city would cost $60-70 billion (£37-43 billion). Clean-up costs would amount to $90 billion (£55 billion), and the loss of thousands of lives would take the figure up to the $160 billion total in payouts.
However, they predict that SHIELD, the secretive military law-enforcement agency that assembles the heroes, would in all likelihood be protected from liability through sovereign immunity. Furthermore, the fact that the battle was waged by Loki, who hails from the mythical Norse world of Asgard, could protect insurers from paying out due to an ‘act of God’.
I find it amazing that some people would immediately think think that the Avengers should be financially accountable! I mean they didn't start it and seeing how Loki's army would have killed or subjugated everyone had they succeeded in New York, I'd think holding the good guys in the movie as liable would be stupid. But if such a thing really happened I'd bet that the defenders would be sued.
'Avengers Assemble' damage estimated at $160 billion | Film & TV News | NME.COM
President Obama Comes Out In Favor of Gay Marriage - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob
President Obama Comes Out In Favor of Gay Marriage - The Snob Blog - Danielle Belton's The Black Snob
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Dr. Randal Rauser Says I Came Up With a New Argument!
I'm not real familiar with Dr Randal Rauser but I have to respectfully disagree with him. The following "argument" by John Loftus is neither new or "novel". It is truly an example of a failure to understand what Christianity is. I thought Loftus says he used to be Christian.
I don't know whether it's new or not, but the thought tickles my fancy. A novel argument is hard to come by these days because the ancients have stolen all of our ideas! Here is what Rauser said:
John Loftus just came up with a new argument against Christianity. He summarized it like this:How does Loftus know this? What evidence does he have for this?
1) If Christianity is true then the Christian faith will probably not die out if Christians stop proselytizing.
(2) The Christian faith will probably die out if Christians stop proselytizing.
My argument asks What Would Happen if Christians Went on Strike?
(3) Therefore Christianity is [probably] false.
It is, if nothing else, a novel argument. Link
Walter, whose Quote of the Day provoked such an argument, is defending it in the comments:
I think what John is getting at is that it might be reasonable to expect the One True Revelation from God should occur supernaturally to all people at all times, and the Christian revelation did not happen that way–it spread just like every other false religion has since man first started inventing religions.I think Walter does not understand what happens to person when he/she is born again. Being a born-again Christian - Accepting and living out the gospel - is itself supernatural - meaning that no human being does it on his/her own or chooses to do it apart from the power of God. This make it different from ALL other religions from the start.
This used to bother me too before I realized that the scriptures doesn't support this viewpoint...neither does history. Christianity's growth is unprecedented and unmatched when you look at how it began with just 120 people - around a crucified prophet - and covers the planet in just 2000 years. What seems slow to us doesn't mean it's slow to God. Also given that the majority of all those who have ever lived, lived after Jesus completed his salvation work, it seems to me that Jesus came at just the right time (just like the Bible says). And given that salvation is retroactive for everyone who has ever trusted God and walked in His ways - even if they did not understand the whole picture. For example - Abraham, Moses, and Ezekiel are just as saved as I am although I have Jesus in hindsight while they looked forward to Jesus. I have more pieces of the puzzle than they but not all of it.
It bothered me in my Christian days to think that the most important event in the history of man had to be spread by the glacially slow process of word-of-mouth between mere humans. It took the Native Americans some 1500 years to get the news. Seems a rather inefficient way of doing things.
A true revelation from the Creator would not need human effort to sustain it; it would propagate in a supernatural manner.
Who says the revelation of Jesus is dependent on human effort. God uses us as means to spread the Gospel but he doesn't need us. There are countless stories of people coming to become Christians without being witnessed to by human being. Check out this link containing such accounts: links here and there.
The Christian faith appears to propagate by purely natural means, and the faith would disappear if no human kept spreading the message.Again see the links and look around for more information. There is plenty of evidence destroying such an assumption.
Who said that God has never revealed himself to anyone else like he did to Paul? Or that no one ever sees or experience something supernatural? There are many reports that say exactly that God still moves this way. And once you realize how truly steeped in sin and spiritually destitute we all are you begin to see the fact that anyone gets saved at all is a miracle from God.
An omniscient and omnipotent being who seeks to get an important message out can easily come up with a better method of communicating to humanity besides appearing to a handful of men in backwater Palestine, then commissioning these men to spread this important message to the whole world via proselytism. Such a God could easily have every person on earth experience their very own Damascus road vision. In fact, an omniscient deity could dream up all manner of supernatural means of communication that I couldn’t even imagine.
Keep in mind I never said I could convince Rauser of this. It's a thought experiment. For some people it will be convincing. For others it won't. The point behind it is stated well by Walter I think.
I don't think anyone who knows what God did for them would ever be convinced by such a thoughtless experiment because we know that we weren't saved just by someone proclaiming God's message but that God transformed and changed us from the inside so that we are now not the same people that we were. Walter and John Loftus completely miss the point of Christianity.
There are so many scriptures that deal with this and that is why I would not call this argument "novel". No, "Facepalm worthy" fits it so much better. Here are just a few scriptures that show my point.
First, no one comes to God on their own without God redeeming them.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:5-8
These verses describe all of us before one comes to God. So how do you explain a person overcoming their default hostility and hatred of God? Jesus said:
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. - John 6:44
How do you come to Jesus? You believe He is who He Claimed to be.
24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” - John 8:24
As for why you are born when and where you find yourself:
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.- Acts 17:24-27
And lastly, 2000 years ago it was recognized that if God was not behind or in control of the Christian movement it wouldn't last. That it would have long died out. Now I recognize that this is not the best argument because if Christianity had failed and never left Palestine it would be proof that there was nothing supernatural to it, but the fact that it survived the best efforts to destroy it does not exclusively mean Christianity is true but it does add evidence to its validity.
Gamaliel is famous. He was Paul's teacher before Paul became a Christian and on top of that He is recognized even in Judaism today. Take a look at what he said.
29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead —whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
33 When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. - Acts 5:29-40
Hmmmm....looks like this movement is from God.
Debunking Christianity: Dr. Randal Rauser Says I Came Up With a New Argument!
Wednesday, May 9, 2012
James White Responds to Matthew Vines on Homosexuality
On his latest webcasts, James White has been responding to a lecture by Matthew Vines on Christianity and homosexuality. Here is Mr Vines' lectureDr White wrote:
Speaking of which, I am sure everyone is noticing that "he who frames the debate wins the debate" being fulfilled this very morning in the media in the US. The passing of Amendment 1 in North Carolina (don't worry, the Federal government will over-turn all these silly, backwards states over time), which affirms and defines marriage in the only logical, rational, historical, moral, ethical, biological, and, of course, Christian way, as the union of one man and one woman, is almost universally being identified as a "banning of gay marriage." Instead of the positive affirmation of serious and thoughtful morality and ethics that is rooted deeply in our history and culture, the main stream media in general has identified the amendment as anti-gay bigotry, etc., never, ever considering the deep bigotry and bias that is inherent in the homosexual movement. The issue is almost always framed in such a way as to paint the moral stance as negative and bigoted, and to put those who would resist the redefinition of marriage on the defensive. It is so obvious and yet the majority of our fellow citizens seem to ignore the reality.
Follow these links to here Dr White's webcasts.
Tuesday, May 8, 2012
Generation Gap
I'm not that old but you can see how much has changed in the past 20 years by comparing that old game with the new game based on the new movie. Most striking difference: you play this one on your phone or tablet. You can either be Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, or Hulk. I wish Hawkeye was included but he isn't.
I'd suggest experiencing both games to see how different they really are. You can get the new game at The Avengers - The Mobile Game. As for Captain America And the Avengers you don't need a Genesis or SNES or even an Arcade to play it now. You can get a Genesis or Super Nintendo (SNES) emulator for your Android device or PC or Mac and then download the original ROM for the game and then you can play it too. There are several websites about how to do this and easy to do.
I was watching my three year-old playing both games on one of our tablets and I was struck by the fact the seems to prefer the new one. I think the new graphics are definitely better!
Monday, May 7, 2012
FacePlant - Debunking Christianity: What Would Happen If Christians Went On Strike?
This post was provoked by Walter earlier, in the quote of the day, who asked, "Aren’t Christians supposed to be guided to the truth by the Holy Spirit? Are John’s arguments more powerful than the Third Person of the Trinity?"
Starting with Walter's quote - pure hogwash. No one becomes a believer without God's direct and complete action. So no, John's arguments are no where near as powerful as the Holy Spirit.
Workers go on strike when they are overworked and underpaid. So I got to thinking what would happen if Christian believers from around the world went on strike. This strike would be against having to do all of the evangelistic and apologetic work themselves. What if they stopped praying for others to be saved? What if they stopped telling others about Jesus? What if Christians stopped evangelizing and arguing on behalf of Christianity? What if all evangelists, missionaries, and apologists went on strike?
God does work through Christian believers to save people. But there are people who become saved without direct input from Christians. Who do you think prayed for Saul before he became Paul? What about the villages in South America where all missionaries had to do was discipleship because people in the villages had dreams about Jesus.
I'm serious! What would happen? Think about this. I know Christians think they have a commission mandate to do evangelistic work, so it'll never happen. Consider it a thought experiment instead. Can God do this work himself? If he can, then why does he need for anyone to do this work at all? If he cares, really cares for people, then he should do something himself. Would God step in and show he cares? Would he do what is right because it is the right thing to do regardless of whether Christians helped him? Would Christianity survive and even thrive into the future? Or, would Christianity die out as God lets the world and its people go to hell? If God sits back and does nothing while the world goes to hell then he cannot be a good God, or perhaps he's just too lazy. ;-) Read to the bottom where I make a reasonable prediction that could very well upset your apologetic cart for good.
God does not need us. We have the privileged to be used by Him. This reminds me of how Loftus blames God for his infidelity instead of taking responsibility for his sin. We need God. We become born again by surrendering to God. Because Loftus does not understand this I don't think he was ever born again. Sure, he used to live a Christian life, but that is not the same thing. The fact that he has fallen away shows that he had no relationship with God.
If Christians went on strike there should be no cause for concern. If God is really inside the Christian faith then it cannot fail. The theme of the book of Revelation is about God's victory in the end. So the faith response is to relax since this is assured. "Be still and know that I am God," believers are told. Actually, the Hebrew is better translated, "Cease, and know that I am God." (Psalm 46:10). Even if believers didn't do anything the victory is assured. So don't be frustrated. Don't lose any sleep over it either. God is winning and will win in the end. After all, Jesus reportedly said, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light" (Matt. 11:30). Imagine that, me, offering devotional advice!
And He has a point: we don't need to be frustrated or worry. God does have it all in hand. He is missing a very important point: our part is to obey - tell others what God has done for us.
5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. - 1 Corinthians 3:5-9
It seems to me believers feel they must comment in order to keep others from being persuaded by what I write. "Oh" they say to themselves, "I must say something lest others be led astray."
I speak up because Loftus makes it too easy. I can't stand the thought of someone thinking that these arguments are good ones. They aren't.
That's because they don't believe God can keep people away from my arguments.
I see people who speak out against such "arguments" as being used by God. Face it...rocks could refute them.
They don't believe God can give believers an extra jolt of the God juice, or that he is able to answer a prayer in a spectacular way in order to mitigate my arguments, or that God can speak to believers in dreams, or audibly, or visibly appear to them at night, if needed. They simply do not believe God could blind people from sites like mine. They don't believe God could change the search engine hits so that susceptible believers would not find skeptical sites like mine. They do not believe God could keep any thought of reading something by a skeptic out of the minds of susceptible believers. They do not believe God can take away enough critical thinking skills that even if susceptible believers did find skeptical sites like mine they would not be led astray.
LOL!!!! How do you know God doesn't? He does all the things that Loftus asks about, but He takes away the critical thinking skills from those who believe him.
Believers act and talk as if God isn't helping them at all, as if God doesn't care to do anything if they don't do it themselves.
Who?
They really do not believe the Parable of the Lost Sheep applies to God, that he will do everything he can to shepherd his sheep. Christians claim to "pray as if it's all up to God, but act as if it's all up to us."
Again, who? That's not what Scripture says.
Yet, that's not what I see. Many Christians simply do not believe God does anything to help at all. No, I cannot convince them of this, I know. But having been on the other side and seeing what I have seen for six years of Blogging, this is my informed opinion. It's what I see on a daily basis. Christians act and talk as if God doesn't do anything at all to help them. Not only this but they do not think prayers to God will work either.
The Faceplants sure pile up.
Christians really do not believe. That's my conclusion. They can't. The way they comment here to defend their God against every argument I make proves it. It proves to me they don't believe God can defend himself. They don't believe their God will take the necessary steps to defeat arguments against his existence and his plan of salvation. It proves to me that God needs humans beings to do this work because he doesn't exist at all.
People who try to talk to people like Loftus are being used by God to try to help him and those who listen to him so that they don't go to hell in ignorance. If you are going to hell, you might as well know why you are going.
If Christians all went on strike then Christianity would go out of existence. That's MY prediction. You know it. I know it. Everyone who is not a Christian (however you conceive it to be) knows it. The Christian faith needs, depends on, is necessitated by people of faith who proselytize it. This is true of every religion. Without people of faith any given faith would die out because there is no deity behind them. That's what Christians think of other faiths other than their own. That's what seems equally reasonable to conclude about the Christian faith as well.
Totally Wrong. God uses us but He does not need us.
What's your prediction? If you think the Christian faith would die out then your God isn't helping you at all in your present attempts to help convert people and keep others in the fold. If you think the Christian faith would die out then you don't believe the book of Revelation. If you think the Christian faith would die out then your God does not care at all. If you think the Christian faith would die out then your God is not a good God. Yet, it seems utterly reasonable that it would die out, doesn't it?
God doesn't need me to proclaim His word. He has been gracious and merciful to allow me to do that. One thing the past 2000 years should have taught us that God's work is not dependent on us. Notice the Gospel keeps getting preached although John Loftus and Dan Barker are no longer preaching. It was getting preached long before I was born and will be preached after I am gone. Christianity has survived all manners of attacks and good and bad intentions. Jesus said.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:18
I doubt Loftus' rhetoric comes even close to being as big a threat to the church as the "gates of hell". Paul wrote:
7 Now
we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people
will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is
right even though we may seem to have failed. 8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 2 Corinthians 13:7-8
Debunking Christianity: What Would Happen If Christians Went On Strike?
Sunday, May 6, 2012
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic? [Video]
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic? [Video]
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: There Isn't Anything I Haven't Considered Before
John Loftus has posted a blog article about how he has truly heard every argument and apologetic for Christianity and it's pointless to try to convince him otherwise. The facepalm comes from the arguments he uses to try to substantiate this.
I have talked to many believers face to face and online for about six years. Not one of them believes me when I say there isn't anything important they can tell me that I haven't considered before. Almost to a person they speak and write as if they can share something new that would cause me to change my mind. It's pathetic to me, and frustrating. I have to start all over with each new believer to convince them of this. Even now some believer just may comment below with what is perceived as something new, or a new approach to reaching me. Many have tried arguing with me. Others have ridiculed me--remember, it's supposed to have an effect when we do it to believers!? Some have tried being kind to me. A few have asked me to come "experience God" at their worship service.
All God would have to do is snap his omnipotent fingers and take away my critical thinking skills so I could believe.
I would say that it would take God's omnipotence to quicken and improve Loftus' critical thinking skills so that he can believe.
Or, he could come to me in a burning bush, a visitation by the "angel of the Lord," a golden fleece, or a Damascus Road experience. If he did that with others without abrogating their free will then he could do that with me without abrogating mine.
Who said that God didn't change Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Gideon, Paul, or anyone else for that matter so that they can come to them. Scripture tells us that is exactly what must happen. Not an abrogation of free will but freeing of our will enslaved to sin. The real lie is when we think we are free without God when we are really in servile bondage.
Believers will retort that I'm not that important to God. Really?
No where in the Bible does it say that God does not care about anyone.
Don't we read in the Gospels where Jesus says God cares for us like the lilies of the field and even numbers the hairs on our heads? Oh, that's right. He only cares for people who believe, they say. Well, I DID believe!
Loftus is right. Jesus did not say that it was only believers God cares about. And now that Loftus doesn't believe anymore doesn't mean that God doesn't care about him. Consider how much God loves atheists although they hate Him. He allows them to go about their lives, and immensely blesses some of them although they neither love him nor recogize him. No one is born a believer. That is why we must be born again. Truth is default position of everyone is to reject God.
Then why did he let me slip through his fingers? Oh, I rebelled, they say. I did no such thing. The excuses keep mounting. I used to parrot them without actually thinking about what I was saying, just like a deluded cult member. In the meantime God does nothing. If he's really a king then he doesn't care that his subjects are being led to the dark side. If he's actually a shepherd then he doesn't care that his sheep are going astray. If he actually loves his bride like a husband then he would do everything he could to keep us close to him. If he's like a mother hen then he would not let his chicks out from under his wings. No king, no shepherd, no husband, and no mother hen would allow this. Such a God would take proactive measures against it.
God does take proactive measures. We love Him because He first loved us. Jesus died for us why we were yet sinners. What more should God do? He's already done more than any of us deserve. No one slips through his fingers. I don't know who will accept God and who will reject Him. All I know is that God's actions is why any of us believe and are saved. I pray that people like John Loftus will hear God and that He will take out their heart of stone and replace it so that they can see and relate to God.
Many believers will say I was never a believer in the first place, or that I will come back to the fold. Again, I DID believe! If God saves people who believe then I was saved, otherwise he did not keep his promise. But that doesn't concern believers. So if I die outside of Christ believers will say I never believed in the first place. If I believe again it will justify their faith. They cannot lose. A well-built fortress like this is impenetrable to reason, although little more than post hoc justifications. And yet here I am trying to reason with them. Trust me on this though. Given that I have not heard anything important to change my mind this won't happen so long as I die in my right mind.
The reason it's impenetrable is because of reason. I'd argue that if you haven't born again you have never been in your right mind. Loftus just traded the delusion of his salvation for another. It's a constant belief. You can't become unborn again. So either he was born again and will return to God or he was never born again in the first place. We have too many scriptures about people who do miracles and works for God and yet won't make it in and those who are not willing to submit to God.
So while God doesn't do anything to help, believers are doing all the evangelistic/apologetic work.
Without God's action no one gets saved.
Believers have just gotten used to making excuses for God's inactivity. They say "God (or Christ) has no hands but our hands to do his work today." They say "God has already provided all the evidence people need to believe." But it totally escapes them that God could do more, just like they wish there was more they could do to reach non-believers. They fail to connect the dots. He's not doing anything discernible, and we can only detect that which is discernible.
God is not inactive. You can't conclude that because God does not choose to act the way you think he should. Real shoddy logic there.
Believers therefore care more than God does. How is that possible, really, think about it. How is it possible that believers who are not perfected in love can outmatch the love of a perfectly loving God?
We can't and we don't.
Oh, that's right, God is also omniscient and wise in his dealings with us. Although we cannot fathom his omniscient ways his ways are good, they say. It escapes the mind of the believer that for us to know God's ways are good we must know enough of his ways to know that they are good.
Such a statement shows that Loftus has never really had a relationship with God. He doesn't know Him. In that way you know His ways and who God is and not just know of Him,.
They say God sent his son to die for our sins thus showing us he's good. But the atonement is a doctrine which is completely and utterly inexplicable. All that believers have is a holy book written by ancient people that says God is good (even while having to explain away the barbaric side of God within in its pages). When they look around the world there is no present day objective evidence that he is good. There is no evidence that there is a good creator either (unintelligent design abounds).
The thought "unintelligent design abounds" is truly unintelligent. To state so mean you know what the design criteria is and none of know that. The atonement is not inexplicable in all its facets. It's what the whole Bible is about - God reconciling humanity to Himself. Seeing how badly and completely John Loftus misses the point makes me think he never understood the point.
I must stop for now. The interested reader should seriously consider how An Omniscient God Solves All Problems and Makes Faith Unfalsifiable. It really does.
Loftus keeps making this faceplant. How does unfalsifiable equal untrue? It doesn't. God has chosen to deal with us on His terms not ours. If one continues to seek God on any terms outside of what God has chosen to do you can't complain about missing Him.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:5-8
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. - John 6:43-50
Debunking Christianity: There Isn't Anything I Haven't Considered Before
Friday, May 4, 2012
Come and Get it: Temptation in the Bible.
At the blog post, linked to at the end of this post, a discussion on whether or not has again broken out if the Bible has contradictions or not. I again challenged Ryan Anderson to provide a single example. He responded with:Just for fun (not that witnessing you debase yourself is fun...)
How about James 1:13 vs. Genesis 22:1
Obviously the authors are talking about different gods, but I'd "love" to hear your desecration of language and common sense.
Yes, let us indeed have some fun. First, let's look at what the text (KJV) says,
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said , Behold, here I am.- Genesis 22:1
Versus
13 Let no man say when he is tempted * , I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted * with evil, neither tempteth he * any man: - James 1:13
So Anderson is saying that both passages seem to be referring to two different gods one who tempts humans and one who doesn't. I think that he is mistaken because he is assuming that both passages are talking about the same kind of "tempting:". This assumption cannot stand. Compare this with the NIV:
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied. - Genesis 22:1Versus
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; - James 1:13
Hmmm...The NIV translators use :"Testing" not "tempting:" in Genesis22:1. Which is correct? Well let's look at the Hebrew word used in Genesis 22:1
The word is
and it means:to test, try, prove, tempt, assay, put to the proof or testSo both translations are correct but given the context the text is referring to testing Abraham, not to do evil or to find out what Abraham would do but improve him like the way burning silver ore purifies it. When God tests us its for us to succeed ultimately, not fail. In James, the context is definitely concerning temptation as in temptation to do evil in the context of the passage. Look at verses 13 and 14.
- (Piel)
- to test, try
- to attempt, assay, try
- to test, try, prove, tempt
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. - James 1:13-14
The shortest and most complete definition of evil is: That which transgresses and contradicts God. In obeying God you can't do evil. Which is why it is silly when people try to argue that God's laws are whimsical or that He can change His mind. As if what's evil today, would please Him tomorrow. Therefore the words here the KJV translates with the English Word tempt can't be the same concept. IF Ryan had bothered to read further maybe he would have realized what "tempt" means in James 1:13-14.
So for completeness let's look at the Greek of James 1:13-14. The word translated "tempted": is
.It means:
- to try whether a thing can be done
- to attempt, endeavour
- to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
- in a good sense
- in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
- to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin
- to solicit to sin, to tempt 1c
- of the temptations of the devil
- after the OT usage
- of God: to inflict evils upon one in order to prove his character and the steadfastness of his faith
- men are said to tempt God by exhibitions of distrust, as though they wished to try whether he is not justly distrusted
- by impious or wicked conduct to test God's justice and patience, and to challenge him, as it were to give proof of his perfections.
We can see how the word is used in the Old and New Testaments. James 1:13 is definitely referring to how God does not get people to sin. And in Abraham's case it's about demonstrating and increasing his character. Today we don't use the word "prove" the way the definition above does but we must still see that is what God does even today for His people.
So, Mr Anderson, your mistake is that you don't understand what the authors of the Bible were talking about and not that they contradict each other.
What had happen' was.....: Mia Love: The GOP's Next Rising Black Political Star
Check out the following link for a really great Bible search engine in various translation:
http://www.academic-bible.com/en/home/
FacePlant of the Day - Debunking Christianity: A New Meme, The Oblivious Christian Apologist
I immediately had an issue with this but not for just the reasons that some people made in the comments.
They point out "rejection" and "criticism" cannot be conflated and still make sense, but I think that there is another issue. What does the fact that some Christians think it's okay to reject and criticize Islam but never read anything of the Qur'an have anything to do with Atheists being ignorant about the Bible? It doesn't. You should not reject other people's beliefs and tell them to change those beliefs if you don't know what those beliefs are.
As for the other meme:
And here is another Loftus linked to.
Epic failure.
Debunking Christianity: A New Meme, The Oblivious Christian Apologist
Thursday, May 3, 2012
FacePalm of the Day - Debunking Christianity: Apologists Are Made to be Stupid Because of Their Delusion
Do I even need to comment further? Let me just highlight what Christian apologist Matthew Flannagan wrote in response to the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF). Some people simply cannot be helped. Sophisticated theology is bankrupt if he is one of it's defenders, and I mean it. All I have to do is link to the discussion, let him have the last word and laugh at his ignorant, utterly ignorant, responses. Join with me folks, in laughing. Like most apologists he is impervious to reason. Like most of them I must prove their faith is nearly impossible before they will see it as improbable, which is an utterly unreasonable standard. Take note of how Matt doesn't need to provide a better method than science, which forms the basis for the OTF. Come on Matt, are you stupid or what? I no longer care what Christian apologists think if this is how they reason. If this is the best they can do then the good ship "Christian" will certainly sink eventually. They are on the wrong side of history. Of that I am certain.
Notice that Loftus does not argue that Dr Flannagan is deluded, he's arguing that anyone who would defend Christianity is deluded.
These particular comments started a very interesting conversation.
Debunking Christianity: Apologists Are Made to be Stupid Because of Their Delusion
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I've seen very little from Loftus than name slinging and insults against Christians. He's not really interested in dialogue - especially when he has no rebuttal.
I admit that this is one of the most gracious comments that I have ever read from a person who rejects Christianity. I just have to ask: How do atheists know that they are not being irrational and wrong when it comes to their rejection of God?