When did God create the Candiru parasite? And why didn't he tell us how to avoid it? Seems to me a good God who cared for us would at least tell us, don't you?
To read up on other parasites get the book Parasite Rex. Read it Christian and let it strengthen your faith! Funny thing is that in our ecosystem we need them. But with a God who could perform perpetual miracles we don't need them at all! Which alternative seems most likely?
Oh, and no using the Omniscience Escape Clause.
12 Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. 13 As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. 14 For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you. - Deuteronomy 23:12-14Now tell me: if we followed this would we have to worry about a parasite swimming into our ureatha? No.
Is God good? YES! God is good and all the time God is good!
Debunking Christianity: Praise God for the Candiru Parasite! Isn't God Good?
Why We Believe in a Designer
ReplyDeletehttp://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/4/part2.html
I think the point is that the Candiru fish simply evolved that way, without foresight as to what suffering it may cause. Had foresight been involved, then some other species could have been designed to fit such a niche, or maybe even no parasites needed at all if other reproductive control factors were present for the host species. At any rate, any species that reproduces too much will eventually be brought down by parasites, diseases, starvation, climate change, natural disasters, or even it's own waste products building up in its environment, etc. That's nature.
ReplyDeleteYes, a designed feature, of the created reality
ReplyDeleteMarcus; your response to Ed deserves the highly coveted "The 2010 Facepalm Award for Excellence in Assertion: the Unsubstantiated Category".
ReplyDeleteCongratulations.
Even children know that complicated systems don't spring into existence without being guided by an intellect. What's your problem? Saying that the Cadiru simply evolved in such a way that our ecosystem needs them requires a lot of faith. And really big assertion. Where is your proof?
ReplyDelete"Even children know that complicated systems don't spring into existence without being guided by an intellect. "
ReplyDeleteLike snowflakes?
"Saying that the Cadiru simply evolved in such a way that our ecosystem needs them requires a lot of faith."
Wow, this demonstrates an almost "Ray Comfort" level of ignorance towards evolution. Animal populations (or plants) evolve due to selective pressures. If one group of animals evolves in a way that creates new selective pressures for other animal populations, they will respond in kind. An then voile, an ecosystem.
Exactly. Snowflakes do not spring into existence all willy nilly.
ReplyDeleteRyan...how are the pressures' selected? Which Species evolves first, causing the others to respond in kind? Seems like the ignorance is yours' not Ray Comfort's.
It takes a sick cruel being to create the Candiru which attacks the gills of other fish and which enters the human urethra to sustain its perverse nourishment. The creator of this scourge is either partly evil or insane or blind amoral impersonal. Monstrous inhuman cruelty describes the creator.
ReplyDeleteSpoken by one who does not know what part candiru plays in the ecosystem. If you do not want candiru in your urethra, do not pee in the river while you are standing in it.
DeleteMarcus. I know more about the Candiru than you think. Dont pee in the water? Is this your best advice? When its not torturing humans this noxious fish sustains its perverse nourishment by attacking the gills of other fish. Its a sick cruel immoral way to exist. Is this intelligent benevolent design? Does this resemble the work of an all good loving merciful being? An honest answer is no. It takes a monster a fiend or an INSANE criminal lunatic to create such horrors or the creator is not all wise or the creator is blind impersonal amoral. Only through rampant suffering and death csn the creation continue. Only by predation violence killing parasites venoms poisons overpopulation mass starvation grievous accidents and injuries hurricanes tsunamis volcanic eruptions can creation sustain itself. This tells me that the creator doesnt know or doesnt have the ability to run a creation in a merciful humane manner. Cruelty violence disease starvation disasters destructiveness and waste are the ways of Nature. Its a cruel cold blooded system. Nature and the creator is ambiguous having both good and evil in it. Nature and the creator have a Jekyll and Hyde personality. Theres much beauty and goodness in Nature but theres also slot of ugliness grossness repulsiveness and CRUELTY in Nature. There are worse things than the Candiru. Ticks fleas lice screw worm flies tapeworms Centipedes Brown recluse spiders the horrific Brazilian wandering spider stonefish box jellyfish cone snails puff adders cobras mambas bullet ants the Andoctronus Scorpion the Orange Baboon Tarantula of Africa which is super aggressive and has an unimaginably painful bite which has been described as being set on fire and horrific diseases such as cancer ebola malaria anthrax strep throat staph infections botulism rabies aids dengue fever etc ad nauseam ad infinitum. Diseases torture and kill both people and animals. Camcer cells comtinue to torture and kill people and animals to sustain its perverse nourishment. In Africa theres a kind of worm whic causes blindness in its victims. How "nice" that is (sarcasm). Being afflicted with blindness to satisfy the perverse nourishment of a repulsive useless noxious worm. What was the creator thinking? Did the creator ever think of the consequences of what He was creating and of the immense suffering thst would result? Its sick immoral inhumane stupid amd insane. Its a sick cruel screwed up way to run a creation. Maybe Satan and demons are to blame for these cruelties. The world is a hellhole and a horror movie.
ReplyDeleteMarcus. I know more about the Candiru than you think. Dont pee in the water? Is this your best advice? When its not torturing humans this noxious fish sustains its perverse nourishment by attacking the gills of other fish. Its a sick cruel immoral way to exist. Is this intelligent benevolent design?
ReplyDeleteDon't pee in the river is not really my advice. It is God's commandment and if you obey God in this matter you don't have to worry about the candiru. That was the point I was making. How do you know that the fish suffers? Being in pain and suffering as a human being would if infected (emotionally and psychologically) has yet to be proven in such fish. How do you know that the ecosystem would not collapse if it weren't for the candiru?
Does this resemble the work of an all good loving merciful being? An honest answer is no.
An honest answer would have include the truth that none of us know what the big picture is for why God has allowed for animals such as this to exist. Only that we can trust that God does have sufficient reason. If you don't agree then you don't know God. If you did know God you would know you can trust Him in this and all things. Also you are neglecting that we don't really know what the candiru was like before Adam's sin. Therefore God is not accountable for the pain and suffering in this world - we are. It's because of our sins that there is such evil.
It takes a monster a fiend or an INSANE criminal lunatic to create such horrors or the creator is not all wise or the creator is blind impersonal amoral. Only through rampant suffering and death csn the creation continue. Only by predation violence killing parasites venoms poisons overpopulation mass starvation grievous accidents and injuries hurricanes tsunamis volcanic eruptions can creation sustain itself. This tells me that the creator doesnt know or doesnt have the ability to run a creation in a merciful humane manner. Cruelty violence disease starvation disasters destructiveness and waste are the ways of Nature. Its a cruel cold blooded system. Nature and the creator is ambiguous having both good and evil in it. Nature and the creator have a Jekyll and Hyde personality. Theres much beauty and goodness in Nature but theres also slot of ugliness grossness repulsiveness and CRUELTY in Nature. There are worse things than the Candiru. Ticks fleas lice screw worm flies tapeworms Centipedes Brown recluse spiders the horrific Brazilian wandering spider stonefish box jellyfish cone snails puff adders cobras mambas bullet ants the Andoctronus Scorpion the Orange Baboon Tarantula of Africa which is super aggressive and has an unimaginably painful bite which has been described as being set on fire and...
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see the insane criminal responsible for the horrors we experience in life look to the people around you and most especially the mirror. When the world was created it was perfect. No pain. No suffering. No death. All these came into play when man sinned against God - you and I along with the rest of society - perpetuate the sins that bring all of this crap on us.
...horrific diseases such as cancer ebola malaria anthrax strep throat staph infections botulism rabies aids dengue fever etc ad nauseam ad infinitum. Diseases torture and kill both people and animals. Camcer cells comtinue to torture and kill people and animals to sustain its perverse nourishment. In Africa theres a kind of worm whic causes blindness in its victims. How "nice" that is (sarcasm). Being afflicted with blindness to satisfy the perverse nourishment of a repulsive useless noxious worm. What was the creator thinking? Did the creator ever think of the consequences of what He was creating and of the immense suffering thst would result? Its sick immoral inhumane stupid amd insane. Its a sick cruel screwed up way to run a creation. Maybe Satan and demons are to blame for these cruelties. The world is a hellhole and a horror movie.
So why does God allow evil? See 2 Peter 3:9. If he were to destroy evil now he would have to obliterate humanity - starting with you and me. If the world is a "horror movie" then it has a happy ending. Jesus came to redeem us and the world from us and our sins. And Jesus will ultimately set everything right.
I see that your belief is Fundamentalism. The belief that the original creation was a paradise and a peaceable kingdom before Adam and Eves sin. This belief has several problems with it. First of all predation violence killing death parasites diseases venoms poisons volcanic eruptions etc are vastly older than humanity or vastly older than Adam and Eves sin. According to science the world is 4.6 billion years old and started off as a suffocating anaerobic toxic unbreathable inferno with boiling mud pools thousands of degrees hot(the Precambrian era.) Secondly predation violence and killing began as long ago as 540 million years ago in the oceans when the worlds first predator the Anomalocaris started preying on Trilobites. Venomous pests such as Jellyfish may have arisen as long ago as 1.1 billion years ago. Venomous pests continued to increase as time progressed with Scorpions Spiders Centipedes venomous fish and continuing with venomous Reptiles. Ticks Mosquitoes and flies have existed since th Cretaceous period during the Dinosaurs and pestered the Dinosaurs. Read the book "What bugged the Dinosaurs?" There is evidence that Dinosaurs were afflicted with ticks mosquitoes worms cancer and tooth decay 70 million to 100 million years ago during the Cretaceous period. And as everyone knows or should know many Dinosars killed and ate each other before becoming extinct 65 million years ago. Hominids have been around for some 6 million years and modern humans for 200000 to 400000 years. By contrast Adam and Eve existed anywhere from 6000 to 32000 years ago. Evidence of tooth decay is known in prehistoric humans and in hominids and in prehistoric Mammals during the Tertiary period. The earliest evidence for tooth decay is 250 million years ago in the late Permian period. This should give some perspective on how long Natural Evil have existed. From this information one can see that the world never was a paradise and never was a peaceable kingdom but has always been a dangerous violent cruel place. As I pointed out before the world was an unbreathable suffocating place before animals were killing and eating eachother. But lets say just for the sake of argument that the Fundamentalists are right about an original perfect creation before Adam and Eve sinned. This still creates serious problems. In my view and in other peoples view it is unfair unjust irrational unreasoning unforgiving mean and cruel for God to curse and punish the ENTIRE creation down the toilet because two ignorant humans(Adam and Eve) angered Him by eating forbidden fruit thousands of years ago. Why do innocent animals have to suffer for Adam and Eves sin? This unreasoning unforgiving unjust God decides to ruin and flush His entire creation down the toilet. And allowing Adam and Eves sin to be transmitted to ALL future unborn humans is unfair and unwise. This is not love and mercifulness. Not in my book. What was a talking tempting snake doing in the Garden of Eden? How does a snake even talk? Remember in God's initial warning to Adam and Eve God doesnt say anything about sin disease starvation birth defects car accidents pollution candiru fish ticks mosquitoes etc as resulting if Adam and Eve disobeyed Him. Only AFTER Adam and Eve sin does God decide to cure and punish the entire creation along with Adam and Eve. Talk about overkill. Whew. The punishment is WAY out of proportion to the sin. Let me continue to another blog before the computer cuts me off.
ReplyDeleteObviously you don't consider the Bible the Word of God and infalliable. I'm not sure if you realize that there are some scientists and some evidence that points to different conclusions that you have drawn regarding human origins and timeline. The truth is that this isn't important in answering the question as to where natural and moral evil came from. Let's instead focus on that.
ReplyDeleteBut lets say just for the sake of argument that the Fundamentalists are right about an original perfect creation before Adam and Eve sinned. This still creates serious problems. In my view and in other peoples view it is unfair unjust irrational unreasoning unforgiving mean and cruel for God to curse and punish the ENTIRE creation down the toilet because two ignorant humans(Adam and Eve) angered Him by eating forbidden fruit thousands of years ago.
I realize that you and many people don't see it as fair that all of us suffer because of the sin of Adam and Eve. The Bible doesn't. Think about it. Was their sin eating the fruit, or was it that they chose to lean on their own understanding and disobey God? It was in their disobedience. We are not all cursed just because of what they did. You and I have plenty of sins enough to bring damnation upon ourselves.
Why do innocent animals have to suffer for Adam and Eves sin? This unreasoning unforgiving unjust God decides to ruin and flush His entire creation down the toilet.\
Read Romans 8: 18-39
And allowing Adam and Eves sin to be transmitted to ALL future unborn humans is unfair and unwise. This is not love and mercifulness. Not in my book.
Of course because it's God's book not yours or mine.
What was a talking tempting snake doing in the Garden of Eden? How does a snake even talk?
Again, you already conceded for the sake of argument that the Bible is right for the purposes of discussion.
Remember in God's initial warning to Adam and Eve God doesnt say anything about sin disease starvation birth defects car accidents pollution candiru fish ticks mosquitoes etc as resulting if Adam and Eve disobeyed Him. Only AFTER Adam and Eve sin does God decide to cure and punish the entire creation along with Adam and Eve.
You have forgotten that God did warn Adam and Eve. He said that the day they eat of the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil that they would surely die. They were not going to die had they obeyed. All of the natural evils worrying you was included. Why? Read Romans 8 again
Talk about overkill. Whew. The punishment is WAY out of proportion to the sin. Let me continue to another blog before the computer cuts me off.
You don't really understand just how bad sin is. What you mean is "I haven't done anything bad enough to deserve to suffer like that." This is not true. All sinners (no matter what we have done and we all have done something) deserve suffering and death. The good news is that God has chosen not to leave us that way. That is why Jesus came. That is why Jesus died. That is why Jesus was Resurrected. All of creation will also be Resurrected. Read Revelations.