Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 2 of 2 | True Freethinker

Mariano has continued his great article about the Problem of Evil. As always it is insightful and definitely worth reading.

Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 2 of 2 | True Freethinker

A Common Atheistic Argument? Yes. A Good Argument? No.

I found the following comic strip via twitter. Keep in mind that people really think that this is a good argument against God's existence!

The argument hinges on the thought that we, as human, can think of God. Does this really make since. Can you really pour the infinite into such a feeble finite vessel as the human imagination? No. It is worse than trying to pour the world's oceans into a thimble. Not going to work.

6 Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.

7 Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. - Isaiah 55:6-11

Just how high are the heavens from the earth? Well the closest star - the sun - is ninety-three million miles from earth so God is saying through Isaiah that we can't possibly understand His thoughts or His ways. This take us back to the the second presupposition made by the strip - that a good God would never allow babies to drown in tsunami. If we can't possible understand God's thoughts or ways, why do you think that you could possible understand the grand plan God has in even the most tragic events that happen to us and those we love.

 ²⁸And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. ²⁹For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. - Romans 8:28-29

The Water-Calming God

TurretinFan has a great article showing how the fact that Jesus could command raging storms illustrates his divinity. It's a great, well-written argument. Check it out!

The Water-Calming God

Debunking Christianity: The Case For "The Case Against The Case For Christ"

This recent post from John W. Loftus is timely. Apparently Robert M. Price wrote a book that has been recently released to refute Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ. What does it say about a book that is derided and it's author dismissed by opponents yet I can now name at least two book written to specifically refute it? I think it says that Strobel's book is far more dangerous to his opponents let on. I happen to like Robert Price although I disagree with almost everything I have heard him said. I think I would like to read Price's book because Earl Doherty's work in which he tried to do the same thing was really awful. I think Prices is smarter than he is. I find the timing of this post and the book interesting because Price is scheduled to debate James White this weekend! I'm expecting a blood bath where only only the mercy of God will be Robert Price's only saving grace.

Debunking Christianity: The Case For "The Case Against The Case For Christ"

Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: Using the Koran as a Path to Jesus

Dr. Mariottini has called attention to a controvery that has been brewing in Baptist circles. This is the first I heard of it. There are some well-meaning Christians who want to evangelize Muslims by starting from what the Qur'an says about Jesus instead of what the New Testament says. Ergun Caner has expressed much opposition but given the fact that he has been shown to stretch the truth of his personal testimony and get some nuances of Islam incorrect, I'm not sure how much weight his opinion matters. I'm not sure what is more scary to me: that Caner is right that the God and Jesus of Islam is irreconcilably different than the Bible's accounts or that I agree with him. I thank Dr Mariottini for posting this article!

Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: Using the Koran as a Path to Jesus

Apologetics 315: Apologist Interview: Sarah Ankenman of WomenInApologetics.com

Here is a great interview drom a woman apologists. He gives a lot of insight that I had not considered about what this kind of ministry means from the perspective of a woman. I really enjoyed this.

Apologetics 315: Apologist Interview: Sarah Ankenman of WomenInApologetics.com

Spider-Man Spins A Web And Stops A Shoplifter On Free Comic Book Day! - ComicsAlliance | Comics culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews

Don't mess with Spider-man.....or people dressed like superheroes on "Free Comic Book Day". Stealing is most definitely wrong!



Spider-Man Spins A Web And Stops A Shoplifter On Free Comic Book Day! - ComicsAlliance | Comics culture, news, humor, commentary, and reviews

Sir Elton John’s Historical and Theological Elucidations: Was Jesus a “super-intelligent gay man”? | True Freethinker

Image via Wikipedia

Mariano has written a great piece on a recent statement by Elton John. I think this goes to show just how awful our society has degenerated and how much we can twist things in our own minds without God.

Sir Elton John’s Historical and Theological Elucidations: Was Jesus a “super-intelligent gay man”? | True Freethinker

Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: The Oldest Song in the World

Dr. Mariottini has posted a great post pointing out that the oldest song we have is from Mesopotamia by the Hurrian people. Here is a description of how he described the article and a ink. You can even listen to the song.

Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: The Oldest Song in the World: "Very few people have ever heard of the Hurrians. The Hurrians were a people who lived in northern Mesopotamia in the third millennium BCE (c. 2500 BCE). Some scholars have identified the Hurrians with the Horites of the Bible.

Professor Anne Kilme, professor of Assyriology at the University of California, and a curator at the Lowie Museum of Anthropology at Berkeley has transcribed a Hurrian song, a song that is considered the oldest song in the world.

You can read more about the oldest song in the world here.

You can listen to the oldest song in the world here."

Apologetics 315: The Cosmos Had a Beginning: Creation Ex Nihilo MP3 Audio by Ken Samples

Ken Sample does a great lecture about why there is good reason to believe that God created reality  - all of the Cosmos -  from nothing - ex nihilo. I'm grateful to Brian Auten posting this on Apologetics 315.

Apologetics 315: The Cosmos Had a Beginning: Creation Ex Nihilo MP3 Audio by Ken Samples

Video: Bill Clinton And Jenna Bush Flirt Uncomfortably On ‘Today’ « Crushable

Here is a video where Ex-President George Bush's daughter Jenna Bush interviews Ex-President Bill Clinton.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Video: Bill Clinton And Jenna Bush Flirt Uncomfortably On ‘Today’ « Crushable

Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2 | True Freethinker

Mariano weighs in on the "Problem of Evil". As always very astute and well-written! Definitely it is us that have problems...not God.

Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2 | True Freethinker

Iron Sharpens Iron: Gabriel N. E. Fluhrer: Atonement

This was A great interview with the editor of the book Atonement - Gabhriel N. E. Fluhrer. It was a great discussion about what the Atonement for sin and the reconciliation of humanity back to God.

Iron Sharpens Iron: Gabriel N. E. Fluhrer: Atonement

THE APOLOGETIC FRONT: Richard Dawkins on absolute morality

On His blog, Mike Felker posted the following video. I agree with his comments.This is a great post! Richard Dawkins is truly a coward whom does not really want true debate because deep down he know his arguments hold nothing. Although I disagree with Christopher Hitchens, at least he has guts to really debate and dialogue with those who disagree with him.





THE APOLOGETIC FRONT: Richard Dawkins on absolute morality

Iron Sharpens Iron: Kevin Butler & Nicholas Kersten: Seventh Day Baptists: Their History & Beliefs

Wow! I didn't even know that there were 7th Day Baptists! Last week there was an interview with 2 members of that denomination. Here is a description from that show. I suggest listening to the interview.

From Monday, May 10th, through Thursday, May 13th, "Iron Sharpens Iron" will be airing a 4-day live series entitled "Saturday or Sunday: Which Day is the Christian Sabbath?: A Debate Between Baptists". The participants in this debate are Samuel Waldron, one of the pastors of the Heritage Baptist Church of Owensboro, Kentucky, and the Professor of Systematic Theology at the Midwest Center for Theological Studies, and Rod Henry, a former missionary to the Philippines and the pastor of Next Step Christian Church (Seventh Day Baptist) in Thornton, Colorado (see http://www.nextstepchurch.org/).

We thought it would be helpful to our audience to learn something about the history and beliefs of Seventh Day Baptists before the airing of the 4-day debate, so we invited Kevin Butler and Nicholas Kersten on the broadcast tonight to enlighten us about their denomination, and how they differ from Seventh-day Adventists and other groups who believe Saturday is the Christian Sabbath.

Iron Sharpens Iron: Kevin Butler & Nicholas Kersten: Seventh Day Baptists: Their History & Beliefs

Debunking Christianity: Ken Pulliam Answers Two Important Questions in Genesis

John Loftus has posted two links to articles on Ken Pulliam's blog,

Does Genesis Teach the Big Bang?, and Have Jews Always Believed in Creation ex nihilo? His answer in both cases is a big fat NO!

The two articles are related.  If Jews do not understand that the creation is ex nihilo (out of nothing)  then Genesis does not teach the Big Bang.  Pulliam makes several presuppositions that I don't see how he supports..In the first post, he quotes Steven C Meyer, who is one of the founders of the Intelligent Design organization Discovery Institute.

Meyer maintains that creation ex nihilo was not taught until the 2nd century CE. He writes:

The first mention of "out of nothing" is in 2 Maccabees 7:28 which says, "look upon heaven and earth and all that is in them: and consider that God made them out of nothing, and mankind also" (Douay Version, or DV). The Greek is "ex ouk onton." This phrase "out of nothing" is best understood as "out of non-being" or "out of invisible matter" because at that time they still believed in the preexistence of matter. Matter was consider eternal (Goldstein, 1983, pp. 307-10). The Wisdom of Solomon 11:17 states, "For thy almighty hand which made the world of matter without form" (DV). This verse teaches that God made the world out of formless (eternal) matter (Winston, 1971-2, 185-202; Goldstein, 1984, 127-35). In chapter 7:25 wisdom is seen as a "pure emanation of the glory of the almighty God" (DV). Philo sees Genesis 1:1-3 through platonic eyes. This is the creation of the invisible world of ideas (On the Creation, 26-37, compare Plato’s Timaeus 29E). The book of Hebrews also seems to follow platonic ideas. The visible world comes from invisible matter (Heb. 11:3). Philo sees preexistent matter alongside of God at the beginning. This invisible matter was eternal (On the Creation, 12). God is the active principle, the formless matter is the passive principle (May, 10). Philo even uses the phrase "ek mh ontwn," meaning "out of non-being," and not "out of nothing" (Allegorical Interpretation III. 10). Clearly, there is no ex nihilo creation in Philo. . . . May concludes, "a firm, unambiguously formulated doctrine of creatio ex nihilo is not worked out in ancient Jewry" (1994, 23).

Another great Jewish thinker who came after Maimonides was Gersonides (1288-1344 AD) Gersonides asked some probing questions like "When were the waters created?" Because there was no mention in Genesis of the creation of water, he rejected the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo (Burrell and McGinn, 6; Staub, 1982). The early church fathers seem to believe the platonic idea of eternal matter from which God fashioned the world. Justin Martyr is an example. In The First Apology of Justin he says, "He in the beginning did of His goodness, for man’s sake, created all things out of unformed matter" (Chapter 10). Justin and Plato in Timaeus both agree that everything came into being through God (Apology I:20, 4). Justin says that Plato took his ideas about God making the world out of unformed matter from Genesis. Justin states, "Plato borrowed his statement that God, having altered matter which was shapeless, made the world (Apology I:59). The world was made out of preexistent matter. The successor of Justin Martyr was Athenagoras who was an Athenian philosopher who became a Christian. His Apology or Embassy was presented to Emperors Aurelius and Commodus about 177 AD. He explicitly believed in the pre-existence of matter (Chadwick 1966, 12, 47). Clement of Alexandria three times "declares that the world is made 'out of nothing', but in each case the phrase he employs is "ek me ontos," not "ex ouk ontos;" that is to say, it is made not from that which is absolutely non-existent, but from relative non-being or unformed matter" (Chadwick 1966, 46). May in his book Creatio ex Nihilo argues very persuasively for the second century AD development of the doctrine of "creation out of nothing" (1994). It was not until the second century AD that the church fathers saw a theological problem with eternal matter. It was their conflict with the Gnostic and middle platonists that developed the idea of God creating "out of nothing."

Here is my problem. He said that no mention is made of creation of nothing before the 2nd Century CE and then quotes many times from the Apocrapha. Many folks would have dated Maccabees and the other Old Testament Apocryphal texts to BCE. In other words Jesus and his followers would have had these texts. Worst he tries to use medieval Jewish sages to back up his interpretations as if Every Jew since Moses would have agreed.

He then spends a little time on the Hebrew word "bara" translated "create" in Genesis 1:1. He spends more time in the second article but he tries to argue that "bara" could mean "separate" or "set in order." It appears to me that Pulliam is arguing that the Bible teaches an eternal universe at worst or says nothing about where the matter the universe came from at best.

The Greek is "ex ouk onton." This phrase "out of nothing" is best understood as "out of non-being" or "out of invisible matter" because at that time they still believed in the preexistence of matter. Matter was consider eternal (Goldstein, 1983, pp. 307-10). 

How do we know that ancient Judaism thought this. I agree that most of their neighbors did believe matter was eternal but they were all polytheists too. No where does the Bible say that matter is eternal, so how do we know that ancient Jews and Christians agreed? I don't think they did.  And how does "out of non-being"  equate to "out of invisible matter"? "Non-being" is nothing not something.

Now, about the second article. Pulliam tries to use the other places in the bible where "bara" is used to show that it does not always refer to something to being created out of nothing...and then based on that argue that it does not mean the universe was created out of nothing in Genesis 1:1. The problem is that he admits that bara can "create out of nothing" but then fails to show that "bara" does not mean "created out of nothing" in Genesis 1:1. So what if it does not mean "out of nothing" in most other cases in the Old Testament?. We can tell because of context that those other instances don't mean  "created out of nothing". Duh! Besides how often does everything come out of nothing?! Once! That is why it is a miracle.

Pullaim Wrote:

In conclusion, did God (if he exists) create the universe out of nothing? Maybe. Does the word bara' demand it? No. Have Jews always believed that their God created the world out of nothing? No.

He failed to show conclusively that "bara" in Genesis 1:1 does not mean "create out of nothing".  I agree "bara" does not always mean "create out of nothing". You have to read the word in context!  Also not all Jews agree that God created the universe out of nothing. So what?  Being a Jew does not automatically make you in infallible interpreter of Scripture. You would have something if you could show that Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Paul, Peter, John, and best - Jesus - or any one from the 1500 years it took to compile the Bible did not see Genesis 1:1 as meaning the universe was "created out of nothing".

Debunking Christianity: Ken Pulliam Answers Two Important Questions in Genesis

Iron Sharpens Iron: Preterist/Theonomic Postmillennialism Defended

Now this was a very interesting show from Iron Sharpens Iron. I really liked it. Pastor Otis explained his view and did it well. He answered some of my questions about how preterists see how Matthew 24 was fulfilled by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The part I found most interesting was the idea that he sees that the Romans putting their symbols and banners in the temple as fulfillment of Daniel and Jesus's words "the abomination that causes desolation". I'm not sure if i buy all of his argument. But it was still interesting.

Iron Sharpens Iron: Preterist/Theonomic Postmillennialism Defended

Mobile Bibles for Study on iPhone & More - Olive Tree Bible Software

Do you need some great electronic Bible/Academic software? Olive Tree is great. They offer awesome mobile and desktop solutions!

Mobile Bibles for Study on iPhone & More - Olive Tree Bible Software

Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 2 | True Freethinker

Part 2 of Mariano's post for responding to a Larry King Show where Larry King discussed Christianity and Homosexuality.

Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 2 | True Freethinker

Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1 | True Freethinker

Image via Wikipedia

Mariano has posted a transcript that shows the controversy of homosexuality in the Christian church.  Here is introduction.

An interesting conversation took place between Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford on CNN’s Larry King Live (April 23, 2010) on a show titled, “Christian Singer Comes Out As Lesbian.”

You can read the transcript and Mariano's comments on his blob. It's extremely important.

Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1 | True Freethinker