Responding to Netzarim - Part 2

There have been a couple of links that have placed on this blog pointing visitors to the site Netzarim (Hellinized "Nazarene"): Orthodox Israeli Jews, Ra'ana, Israel. I'm all for this blog being open to all viewpoints including idea counterposed to my own. This is why I keep the comments sections open and do not censer the comments. This particular web sites makes claims against Christianity that I do not agree with. I would like to have a dialog on the issues that are brought up on the site. Let me list the claims that I think should be discussed in more detail. The site attempts to make its claims starting from Jewish, Christian, and Islamic perspectives and then bringing them into a single argument. My problem is that the site misrepresents what I, as Christian, believes. I will be writing this response in 3 parts. Here is the 2nd part. This part challenges the charges that there is no Old Testament for the incarnation, Jesus' deity, Resurrection, and the atonement. In short, let's see if we can come up with an apologetic similar to that the first century Christians used.

This post is pulled from a possible Sunday School lesson I would like teach about the differences between Islam and Christianity. The interesting thing is that the apologetic being developed for defending Christianity works equally as well as against the Netzarim web site. I have a power point that illustrates the points I want to make. Find it below. The rest of this post will be the narration that I would use that would go with the slides.

Basics of Islam and Comparison to Chris...

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Slide 2: There are three main objections raised against Christianity:
The Trinity
Jesus incarnation and deity
Jesus’ Atonement for the sins of humanity

Slide 3: Let's define some terms
Monotheism means belief in one God. Polythesim is belief in many gods. They are opposite of each other and mutually exclusive. You can't be bother a monotheist and a polytheist. Trinitarianism is the belief that God is one in being and three in person. Unitarianism is the belief that God is one in person as well in being. Monotheism and Trinitarianism are not mutually exclusive. You can be a monotheist and a Trinitarian because the Trinity is not about three gods.

Slide 4: Misconception of Christianity
Confusing Trinity with polytheism is what some Jews and Islam does.
They hear three beings - three persons.
Or they imagine a man with three heads
Or they think we mean The Father, the Mother – Mary, and the Son – Jesus.

Slide 6: Defining what the Trinity is!
There is only One God. Jews, Muslims, and Christians agree on this. One in being. One in Essence.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Deuteronomy 6:4

One what? One being.
Three Persons. Father, son, the Holy Spirit.
Co-equal, Co-eternal, distinct
If the Bible tells us that the Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God, then all three are God.

Slide 8: The Father is God - Another point we can all agree on.
2 Peter 1:17 clearly states that the Father is called God.



For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Slide 9: The Bible tells us Jesus is God
Jesus accepted worship – no one, Biblically, can be worshiped but God alone –

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
John 20:28,29

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." - Hebrews 1:6

Jesus applied the divine name to Himself

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."– John 14:8-21

His opponents understood what Jesus was claiming to be.

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.- John 8:58,59

We know that Jesus was equating himself with the one who spoke to Moses from the burning bush in Exodus 3.

See also John 10: 24-39

Jesus’ earliest followers equated Jesus with God. - John 1:1-5,14,18; John 12:39-41; Colossians 1:15-20; Phillippians 2:5-11

Jesus taught that He and the Father are not the same person – John 12:12-14; He said that Her and the Father are two distinct witnesses.

Slide 10: The Holy Spirit is God
The Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force or energy field without consciousness or thought. Look at Acts 5:3,4 which says:

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."Examine what Peter said. First he said Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit. You can't lie to a force, you can only lie to a person. Second, Ananias lied to God not just to men.

The Holy Spirit is equated to God. Let's get another example: Acts 13:1-3 says:

In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

I'm sure you can see that it says that the Holy Spirit spoke. He said He had a plan for Barnabas and Paul. A force cannot have plans or have desires.

Slide 11: Jesus says and does things only applies to God
Only God can forgive Sin – Jesus claims this right in Matthew 9:6-7
Only God is eternal - Yet the Bible says the same of Jesus John 8:58,59; John 1:1-5; Revelation 1:17,18; Hebrews 13:8; Romans 1:20

Only God can walk on water – Job 9:8; Matt 14:22-33; Mark 6:47-51; John 6:16-21

Jesus is Good, but none is good but the God- Mark 10:18 – Jesus did not object, but instead points out the fact that like God only He can truly be called “good”

Slide 13 - Old Testament Reference to the Incarnation
No Man can see God – Exodus 33:19,20; John 1:18; John 6:46; 1 John 4:12
Old Testament is full of references of people relating to either angels or God in human form.
If no one can see God, whom did they see?
Abraham - Genesis 18: 1-15
Hagar - Genesis 16:13
Jacob – Genesis 32:22-32
Moses – Exodus 3; Exodus 33:19,20
Manoah and his wife – Judges 13
Ezekiel – Ezekiel 1
Isaiah – Isaiah 6
Daniel – Daniel 7

Slide 14 - Who was it that they saw?
The early Christians equated at times the physical manifestation of God with a pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. - John 12:39-41 refers to Isaiah 6:1-4
God is Omnipresent when He was with any one on the list previous He was still in Heaven and running the universe
If He can dwell on the earth among us for hours, minutes, or days, He could do it for years!
“God dwelled among men when He so desired, and He did it ultimately in Jesus the Messiah.” Hazakim

Slide 15: Sacrificial Laws Fulfilled By Jesus
In light of the New Testament: Galatians 3:23-25


Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice Isaac typifies the work of Jesus – Genesis 22

The Last Supper equates with Passover – Exodus 12; Matthew 26: 17-30

Jesus is the propitiation for our sins – 1 John 2:1,2; 1 Corinthians 6:19,20; Romans 5:6; 1 Peter 2:24

We are justified before God and wrath satisfied before God.

Like Jesus’ one-time sacrifice for all, the sacrificial system was substitutionary Hebrews 7:11-28;8;9;10

Here is the Theophanies video again





Sources on this blog
Biblical Basics - The Deity of Christ
Biblical Basics - The Deity of Christ - Redux
Biblical Basics - Trinity: A Positive Presentation Part 1 Introduction
Bible Basics - Trinity - Part 2a Bible Foundations
Bible Basics - Trinity - Part 2b Bible Foundations
Bible Basics - Trinity - Part 3 Conclusion
Bible Basics - The Trinity Part 4: Bibliography
Bible Basics Trinity - Part 2 Redux
Bible Basics: Trinity